| Summary: | THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM INTERVIEW WITH: Eugene O. Goldbeck INTERVIEWER: Ingrid Kokinda DATE: January 14, 1983 PLACE: Goldbeck living room, San Antonio, Texas K: Mr. Goldbeck, I would like to know when you were born and where. G: I was born on Guenther (5150) Street in the old Meerscheidt addition. As far as I know, I was told I was born, I was there but I don't quite remewber. I vaguely remember the doctor going out and telling my daddy that it was a boy. Anyway, I was supposed to have been born on the 4th day of November , 1 892 . Actually, I can also prove I was born in 1891. Probably the only person in San Antonio that has 2 birth certificates. K: How did that happen? G: Well, World War I, I was trying to get a commission as an officer and had to produce my birth certificate and they couldn't find it. So I got my mother and the old doctor that brought me into the world. They said I was born in 1891. Well, then they discovered the original birth certificate saying I was born in 1892. K: Were you the first child in your family? GOLDBECK G: No. An older brother, two years before I was born born in 1890. K: Did you have any sisters, also? G: I had a sister that was born in 1894 and another one born in 1900. K: But you grew up in San Antonio. You lived on Guenther Street. G: Yes. I've spent about half my life roaming around the globe. The rest of the time, I was right here in San Antonio. K: Do you remembe r to which grammar school you went? In San Antonio? G: There was only one at the time. The old German-English School which was converted into what they called Brackenridge Grammar School. K: On Alamo Street. G: Yes. Right across from Beethoven Hall . K: Do you remember any classmates that became famous in San Antonio or that you recollect? 2 G: Well, I remember quite a few. I'm the last one of the bunch. I graduated from Main Avenue High School after grammar school, Main Avenue High . that was the only high school we had in San Antonio, Main Avenue H.S. And as far as I know right now the only classmates, schoolmates, that's still alive is old Walter McAllister. K: Did you go to grammar school with him too, in the same, class? GOLDBECK 3 G: Not in the same class. He was ahead of me. Class ahead of me. The rest of 'em are dead. I can mention names. Huntress was Sheriff here; he has been dead for ten years; many of 'em, all dead. I'm the last one. The only reason I ' m still here , the old fellow downstairs doesn't want Hell polluted any worse than it is . Says, "Keep him up there; can't use him. 11 K: Mr. Goldbeck, we know that you have two initials. E. and o. What do they stand for? G: Eugene Omar. I was named after Omar the Tentmaker . K: Really? G: My father thought of that. . the old famous poem. (ed : The Rubaiyat). Anyway they named me Omar. K: And your family, Mr. Goldbeck your father was born in San Antonio? Fritz Goldbeck? G: My father was born, he was the first boy born in Comfort , Texas. K: From an immigrant family. G: Yes. Was born in Comfort. K: They came from . ? K: They came from Germany. K: The Goldbecks. G: Yes. Came from Germany. Landed at • I think they first came to Galveston and took a small boat from there to Indianola. From Indianola they came over to New Braunfels in ox carts. From there , they went to Comfort. My father's father started a store there in Comfort . GOLDBECK 4 G: His brother was an advocate. K: Advocate is a lawyer. Do you recollect what kind of a store it was? G: It was just a general store. He finally sold it to Faltin. K: And it's still standing. That old Fachwerk-Haus was built by your grandfather? G: Yes. The Faltin store, yes. K: That's a little, small store. Yeah, I remember that. And then your father was Fritz Goldbeck. G: My father was Benno T. K: Benno. G: Benno Theodore. B. T . Goldbeck. K: And he came to San Antonio after he married or? G: He came to San Antonio before he was married. As far as I know my father and my mother were married in about 1888, 1889. K: In San Antonio. G: 1888, I think, in San Antonio. My father was connected with his brother-in-law, George Koerner. George had a big commission store here in San Antonio. Wholesale grocery outfit. My father worked for him for a long time. And then he finally . well he was auditor for the city for a while. They lived here in San Antonio fo r many years. K: Mr . Goldbeck, I also know that you are a very famous photographer. G: Infamous. GOLDBECK 5 K: We all have seen your photographs. When was the first time that you ever took a camera into your hand? Will you please tell that story? G: I imagine, 1901. William McKinley, who was President of the United States, came to San Antonio on a visit. If I remember right it was the fourth of May, 1901. A one-day visit. They lined all the school kids up at Travis Park all with little flags. All the schools were given a holiday to greet the President. My older brother had an old box camera and I borrowed this box camera from him, and when William McKinley drove by in a carriage I had to break ranks and went out into the street and take a picture. That was the first picture I made in 1901. K: The film--you didn't develop it; you took it to someplace. Of course you took it to someplace else. G: I think I developed it myself. I'd been fooling around with . . at that time, you could buy what they called the M Q tubes; M Q tubes. All you had to do was put a certain amount of water with it and make your developer. And you had another little package there that made your hypo. I used to mess around myself. K: Did the photographs come out nicely? G: As far as I know; it's up at the University. They say they can't find 'em. I think I photographed every President since, either while they were President, or before they were President, or after they were President. Everyone of 'em. K: Do you have a photograph of Ronald Reagan? GOLDBECK 6 G: Oh, yes. He was here and made a talk to the Junior J C Convention here about six months ago . K: What did you do then with this photograph of president MCKinley? Did you keep it for yourself or did you . sell it? G: No. I just showed it around. I didn't have sense enough to try to sell it. Of course , later on, I sold my pictures to newspapers and magazines , anybody that would buy them. But I didn't have enough sense to try to sell them. K: You gave them away . G: Well, I gave a few, probably . At that time, I also made pictures of the kids in school , schools. Used to sell 'em for a nickel apiece; nickel per print. And then I'd go after the teachers after school sometimes. And I'd charge them ten cents per picture . K: And during high school, would you take pictures of your fellow students? G: I made quite a few. And I also made , after school, I did other work, too. I graduated in 1910. K: That was from Main High School, right? G: Yeah. That was the only high school we had. Now they've got about 25 of ' em. K: What was your favorite subject in school? G: I liked mathematics more than anything else , I think. These children nowadays , they come out of school and they know nothing about the world. They never heard of Afghanistan; they couldn't tell you what continent it was GOLDBECK 7 G: on even. They know nothing about history. They know nothing about geography. I don't know what in the world they learn. They can't add or subtract, or anything else. They've got to have a little computer or something. So I don't know; they don't learn very much. K: After you graduated from high school, did you go on to college or did you go into business? G: I put in just about one year is all, in college. K: In San Antonio? G: NO. Mainly in New York City. Columbia University. K: You didn't have a major, then; what you wanted to do? G: No. I'm dumb. I haven't got near the education I'd I ike to have. I may go back to school again one of these days. K: You can be a teacher. G: Be the oldest pupil in school. K: What would you like to take? What subject would you like to. .? G: Well, I'd like to brush up on my German; like to learn Spanish; and I'd like to take some more mathematics. Higher mathematics. K: We have a lot of choice tOday in universities in San Antonio. Mr. Goldbeck, what did you do then when you came back from New York City? You came back to San Antonio? G: Yes, I did. K: And you went to work in San Antonio? G: Well, most of the time I've always worked for myself. I GOLDBECK 8 G: haven't done too much for other people. I worked for the Fox Company years ago. Car l Newton started the Fox Company . Carl Newton III is now President of Fox Company. It was his grandfather who started the Fox Company. He bought out the old Fox studio on Alamo Plaza. K: And you went to work for him? G: Yes, I worked for him for. . Before I did that, I used to work for the Alamo Camera Company. It was also on Alamo Plaza. That was about 1907 or 08, along in there. K: This was while you were a high school student? G: I worked after school and on Saturdays. And also Sundays many times. I worked for Carl Newton twice. Once before World War I and after the war was over. Came back to San Antonio and worked for him again . Had charge of his finishing department one time and had charge of his Kodak department the second time. And I'm the oldest one. Everyone of the men that ever worked in there at the time I was working for Newton, are all dead. Everyone of 'em. Newton's brother is dead; old man W 's dead; old man Welch; al l dead. All had charge of different departments. They are all dead . K: There must be a reason why you are still with us. G: Yeah, I'm still here. K: Mr. Goldbeck , you're famous for your panoramic photos. I understand you have a patent on your camera. G: I have severa l patents built into my camera, yes. K: When did the thought come to you that you wanted to GOLDBECK 9 K: perfect on a camera? G: First, the regular circuit camera, take it up high. First, if you've got a group of men in front of you, couple of thousand men you want to photograph. You have to have a high tripod or if you tilt the normal circuit camera down on the opposite sid~build a high tower. You're shooting up at the moon. With my cameras, I can turn 'em any given number of degrees and maintain the same degree of declination for an entire arc. That's one of my patents . Another patent I have. I made a picture of Kurfuerstendamm Stras in Berlin , cars moving up and dm.,n street; no movement in the photo at all. You couldn't make a picture like that with a regular circuit camera. The fastest exposure you've got is 1/12th of a second. Well, I shot that picture in 125th of a second. That is another patent I have; very unusual. I can do things with my cameras no other circuit cameras can ~y do without~patents. K: But you built up that mechanism yourself. G: Yes. K: And then you patented it here in San Antonio . G: Patented in Washington. Patent Office. I had to get patent lawyers. It took me a couple of years to get the thing t hrough. K: What year was that? G: I don 't remember for sure. It's been a long time ago. I'd say it was about 19 . . oh, just off-hand, I'd say about 1921 or '2, somewhere a l ong there. K: You were pretty much a free-lancer most of your life. G: Oh, yes . GOLDBECK K: I know that you just returned from China. But before China and the Great Wall , which was the high point of your .•. what was the photograph that excited you the most? That you were after the most? 10 G: I think the photograph of Machu picchu. Another I'd say was getting all five pyramids and the Sphinx in one picture. K: It takes a lot of traveling to go to the points that you've been, around the world. You've probably covered the most interesting, or most famous places in the world. How often do you travel? Do you go at least once a year? G: I'd say at least once a year , yes. After I came back from China, I took another trip. Went from the Canadian Rockies . took quite a few pictures up in the Canadian Rockies; made pictures of Banff and the famous baronial-like castle hotel there; Lake Louise; stopped off in Calgary and made pictures in Calgary and Alberta. Also, made pictures in Denver. Before we came back, went down to Seattle and made a picture there and made a picture in Portland. And since then, I've made another trip. East. with Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York. made another picture of New York. Made a picture of the new gambling deal there in Atlantic City. So I never stay put for very long. K: You went to China in May , didn't you? G: I think it was April. Came back the latter part of May . GOLDBECK 11 K: And that was quite a trip, wasn't it? G: Oh, yes. I was greatly surprised at the terrific change that had taken place in China. K: You were there the last time in .? G: 45 ye ars ago, 1937. K: You were in mainland China? G: Yes. K: Shanghai, peking? G: I was allover at that time. Tsientsen, Peking, Shanghai . K: Did you take photographs then, too, to compare to tOday? G: I made a lot of photographs, yes. The official panoramic pictures I made then I made for the military. They had the 15th Infantry, one whole regiment up at Tsientsen. I went up there and made pictures of the 15th Infantry. Back in those days, I used to go up there every three years, '34 t o '37. I photographed for the military for 30 years or more . I was the only unofficial photographer, but they always invited me back. K: When was the first year that you photographed any military? G: 19. . oh, I'd say, when they had the first trouble down in Me xico. When Pancho Villa was raising Cain. I got the whole National Guard right here at Ft. Sam Houston. I used to go out there and photograph those fellows. That was in 1913, I guess. '12 or '13. K: Did you ever see Pancho Villa? GOLDBECK G: Yes. K: Did you photograph him, also? G: Yes. K: You knew Zapata, too? 12 G: Yeah. All of the bandits, I got 'em in one picture. There was Zapata, Pancho Villa, Orozco, and got some that were not bandits. same picture. Francisco Madero who l a ter became President he was in with these bandits. And I got Carranza who later became President. They were all in this group, down in Chihuahua. K: In Mexico. They had quite a few foreign correspondents there, too. Did you ever meet any of those? Foreign correspondents from Europe? They were sending newspaper people down there, too, in Chihuahua, photographers. G: Casually. Never. K: That was quite an excitement, wasn't it, with Pancho Villa? G: Well, I heard they were going to be together, I just went down there. It wasn't very exciting to me. K: One time you got the whole United States fleet in one photo, didn't you? G: Yes. They had maneuvers in Panama Bay. . . I think that was in 1936 if I remember right. They had the Atlantic fleet come through the Canal and join the Pacific fleet. The Pacific fleet came down mainly from Hawaii and San Diego. Had a rendezvous there in Panama Bay. K: And you heard about that and went or did you happen to GOLDBECK K: be there? G: As far as I know, there was no secret to it. Read about that it was going to take place. K: And you traveled down there . G: I used to go to Panama every three years, stay down there about three months every time . First time I went there when they opened the Canal in 1914. 13 K: You were down there. Did you take photos then, too? G: Yes. Didn't make a panoramic , though. Fact of the matter is, I think what got me started on panoramic was one of the fel lows down there made a picture of one of the big British battleships going through the Canal. And he had a 16 by 20, I think. not 16 by 20, he had an 8 by 20 banquet camera. And he was telling me how many pictures he sold. I thought, "My God. I'm going to hit this new stuff right now." K: And it's been good to you these years, haven't they? G: Yeah. I think so. K: Your name is carried on nOt., first your son and now your grandson has it . G: Well, he's got his own business. I don't want to detract from him. He's built up a wonderful business of his own. K: Yeah, but if his grandfather hadn't been in photography, he might now have done it. G: My son took over for 35 years and he's got more sense and he tells me, "You don't need the money, why don 0 t you quit it GOLDBECK 14 G: altogether." He just takes things easy . He's going to Nairobi the first of February . K: Shooting with his camera , I bet . G: Well, he ' ll take his camera. It's a p l easure trip for him. K: What drives you , Mr . Goldbeck? Why don't you retire and take it easy like your son? G: Well, I ' ve retired about 8 times, but I don't have sense to stay retired . K: Do you have the urge to just go and you just need this one perfect shot? G: I think the old photo bug must have bitten me awfully bad or awfully hard; it just got in my blood. I see things. I say , "My God, why didn't I make a picture of that?" What I want to do now, I don't know whether it will transpire or not, I want to go across Siberia. I want to take Marco Polo's o l d trail and follow Marco Polo through Siberia . I ' d like to go over to Canton , get on a train there, Peking, and go right straight across to Moscow. Stop off at all those main places in Siberia. I don't know whether it will work out or not. It's a dream, anyhow . K: Wonderful . But your camera equipment is quite cumbersome , isn't it? G: Oh, yes. My 2 Camera Cases weigh 92 pounds. Two cases weigh 92 pounds. K: When you go on a train trip like this, you keep the GOLDBECK K: camera equipment with you? Or do you put it on the baggage. .? 15 G: Unfortunately, every time I've put it in baggage to my sorrow. The camera itself, of course, one of these cases has a tripod in it and all that sort of thing. The camera itself, I don't risk it in the airplaneS anymore. Too many times, I've had to tear the thing apart and work it allover again. The way they throw the luggage around, it was terrible. You carry it on. K: What kind of negatives do you use in your camera? G: Well, now I generally use color film. Don't make many black and whites anymore. K: Is it only spool? How many shots do you ••. it must be a large spool then, isn't it? G: The spools are about 11 inches. The film itself is 10 inches. About 10 1/ 2 inch spool. The film is 10 inches wide and it's about 7 feet long. They say it's 6 feet but they generally give you an extra foot. K: And do you have to special order your film? G: Oh, yes. And you get one picture to a film. K: To one spool. G: And also it's $35.50 a roll. You've got to buy about 100 rolls or they won't even make 'em up for you. K: Are they a special order from Kodak? G: Yes. K: Has Kodak been your supplier all these years since you GOLDBECK K: started? G: Well, almost. Agfa for a while, but mainly Kodak. I don't buy 100 rolls at a time. My grandson, he's really busy. He buys 'em and I buy a dozen rolls off of him. K: This is for the color film, right? G: Yes. K: And black and white? 16 G: Black and white is less expensive. It runs about $22.00 a roll. $20.00, I think it is. K: All these negatives that you have from all • the military photos that you ever took, of the regiments that you took. You were out at Kelly, weren't you and at Brooks. Did you take. .? G: Yes. Brooks. Anyplace. K: Ft. Sam and so on? G: Not only here but wherever we had any military. I used to go to Puerto Rico every 3 years, Panama every 3 years, Philippines every three years, China every 3 years, go to Hawaii every 3 years. Go up to Alaska, Chilicoot Barracks. We had troops at Chilicoot. Wherever we had any troops. West Point, all of the various units in the United States. K: And your specialty was to assemble the men in the design of their insignia and did this only once in a while? G: Just once in a while was what it was. That was a real job. I worked it all out. Takes weeks to get one of those pictures. Just to work it out mathematically. It's all worked out mathematically, even to the spot on the ground. GOLDBECK G: For every man we put a physical spot , a little one inch square, white marker and nailed it into the ground, at a mathematically designated point. 17 There were 21,765 men photo. in the large Air Force insignia K: How many? G: 21 ,765. And there's not a face hidden in t he entire picture . Every face showed. K: And for this photo, you had to build the tower, didn't you? How high was that? G: The tower was 222 feet , I think. K: And you climbed the tower, didn't you , with your camera? You had to pos ition your camera up there. G: I used to climb every wireless tower in this country. The army posts all had wireless towers, that was before the days of TV. They had radio towers . I used to get up and get a bird's eye view of the whole Post. I used to think after I qot. up 40 feet it wouldn't hurt me any worse if I fell 400. K: And nothing ever happened to you? G: Well, I'm still here. I climbed one tower in Panama one time. It was a Navy wireless tower, 505 feet. Later, I got on top of the Tower of the Americas to take a picture of San Antonio. Had to get up on top of the roof. K: You had to get special permission, didn't you? G: Practically a special act of Congress. Had to get up on the roof . I can swing my camera up there to 300 degrees GOLDBECK G: of an arc. K: Did the City Council have to give you permission? G: A~ot of red tape with the thing. K: You actually took a picture in Paris one time. Was that at the time of the World's Fair? 18 G: It was the lOth anniversary of the signing of the Armistice. The National Convention of the American Legion was invited over there by the French government . K: What year was that? G: 1927. K: And at that time, you got permission to build a tower on top of the Grand Palais . How tall was that tower on the Grand Palais? G: Oh , about 45 feet. K: And the roof of the Grand Palais was . G: Glass, and taking it down (the tower) part of it fell and it cost me $700 to undo the damage that I had done. K: When they took the tower down, they broke some of the glass. Yes, the contractor let part of it fall and it damaged the roof. K: But your photograph was quite famous too, wasn't it? G: Yes, I felt good about it. I thought, "My God, I've got a picture now that I'm sure a lot of people in Paris would like to buy; a lot of tourists would like that." So I went back to the Chief of Police , Chief of those Gendarmes there and I said, "Look," in fact, I gave him a copy of it. I said, "We'd like permission now to sell this on the streets of Paris. Many GOLDBECK 19 Legionnaires would like to buy a copy." He demurred at first and finally he said, "I'll give you one week ." I said, "Look, I have a man with me from California and all I need is one man in the set up. How about another set up in two different p laces? " K: Do you remember the spots? G: Not off hand. We picked out a couple of spots there and fo r a week's time, we took in money every k ind of money you could think of according to the rate of exchange. Belgium, German, French . . At the end of a week we had a little over $7,000. I didn't know what we had. We filled up a suitcase with money. Took it to the American Express Company and it took ' em a half a day to figure out what we had. It was a little over $7,000. , K: You were always fascinated with the building of the Opera in Paris. G: I used to think it was the most beautiful building in the world. I still say it is number t wo . The Taj Mahal, there is nothing that can compare with the Taj Mahal. And I've seen all these places they claim are most beautiful. You go to Turkey and they're ready to run a dagger down your back i f you argue with them, even intimate that there i s a building more beauti-ful than the Blue Mosque. And you go to Russia and they say , "Well, our St. Basil's Cathedral--there's nothing to compare with it. The most beautiful building in the world." I've seen all of the so-called most beautiful buildings. GOLDBECK K: And you've photographed them all, haven't you? G: Yes. 20 K: The Red Square in Moscow, you photographed there, didn't you? What year was that? G: Pcl::wabJ,y after World War II. Things were very touchy. And my wife and I were on a boat • this boat stopped in the Black Sea port of Odessa for a day. I think we were going to be there 3 days, that was it. I said, "Mama, this is a chance; we can go up to Moscow. We've got enough time. This is a good chance to go up and see MoscoW." So I took my big camera. We got on a Russian plane, the seats are about that wide, you know. I don't know how in the world a large person could sit in them. Anyhow, we landed there. They put us up in the Metropole Hotel. It was a nine story, wooden hotel . . . wooden. And we were just about on the top floor. I said, "Mama, we're in a real fire trap. If this thing ever caught fire, you'd never get out." They had two elevators in it. They were hydraulically operated elevators. That was by water. And one of 'em wasn't running. They were very slow. Anyhow, the next morning I said, "I'm going to Red Square and make a picture of Red Square." /1et a little Russian girl there, some kind of a guide, tourist guide, or something. Got to talking with her and she got hold of a car for me, some kind of a taxi or something. Incidentally, there is one word that I know of that is the same in any language . Turkey, Russia, Germany, France, any GOLDBECK 21 G: anywhere. O.K . I knew I didn 't dare ask for permission to make this picture because I ' d never get it; or get anywhere near it. So I just took a chance. I set my camera up in Red Square and about 6 of these Russian police stared and gawked at me and first thing you know about 200 Russians . never saw a camera outfit like this . . I guess they figured anybody had nerve enough to set up in Red Square must have gotten permission from high and never asked me anything. K: This must have been wonderful. And the day was perfect; the weather was perfect to get. G: Well, there was a very light snow. Very light snow. K: Almost like filtering effect. G: Very light snow. Not enough to hurt anything . I made a sweep there that showed St . Basil's Cathedral clear around -to th armory, the whole works. The Kremlin, Lenin's tomb, the whole thing in one picture. Even showed some Russian cars. K: So you were satisfied and you packed up and went back to the hotel. G: Yeah. Been over there a couple of times since. Last t ime we went to Leningrad. Made a wonderful picture of Peter the Great ' s summer place. We were told it was the largest palace that was ever built . Tremendous thing. K: Larger than Versailles? G: Said it was the largest palace that was ever bui lt. GOLDBECK 22 G: It is a tremendously large palace. Whether it is true or not, I don't know. Now it's a big museum of some kind. They've got 250 fountains left and right of a canal that extends all the way to the gulf of Finland, about 3 miles away. K: That was recently you went to Leningrad. It's a colorful G: Time flies. I imagine it was about 10 years ago. Time flies. That was in color. It was impossible for me to make color pictures up until about 15, maybe 17 years ago. I pestered Eastman Kodak for 25 years trying to get 'em to make color film wide enough for my camera. Color film was available but for smaller pictures. About 17 years ago they finally broke down and came out with film large enough for my camera. K: When Eastman Kodak had their hundredth anniversary, did they include you in their exhibit? G: No. K: None of your photos. G: When the Fox Company had their 75 year anniversary, and I'm the last one of the old original bunch left, and they didn't even invite me . K: Short memories or uninformed. That's really something. Mr. Goldbeck, how long after you came back from Columbia, from New York, that you left San Antonio again, when you were living in San Antonio and then you said once that you bought a car and you packed up your GOLDBECK G: I guess within a year or so after I came back here. Start ed going allover making pictures. Went to Hawaii; went to Panama and d i fferent places. K: And a l so up to Washington state , right? Oregon? G: Oh, yes. K: This one inci dent you had up there . G: That was before I even got married. That was in 1914. K: I 'm talking about the time before you got married . G: I went over to the west coast . I was about starving to death over there . I n San Francisco I was broke. And you could live on five cents a day, believe it or not . The saloons all had , at noon time , they all had free lunch. K: With beer , righ t ? G: And all you had to do was buy a schooner of beer. For a nickel. And then you could have a free lunch . I did that for a couple of weeks there. 23 K: Then in 1914 , did you have a car then already? Or did you mostly train and then . G: Train. I'm a little ahead of myself . I worked for the southern Pacific Railroad for a whi l e. I was motor car eng in-eer for ' em on the tracks , and I was photographer for 'em . And when I wasn ' t busy at ei t her one of those, they had me in the Chief Clerk's office here in San Antonio. K: At this railroad station that they ' re restoring now. On Commerce Street. G: Yes. That ' s right . That was my headquart ers . K: For how many years was that? GOLDBECK 24 G: I was only there about a year. K: 1914 . 13. G: About 1913, I guess. Maybe half of '13 and half of '14. I had gotten quite ill and I thought I'd better change my climate or something . I'd been eating too much sweets. I used to buy from Kress's on Houston Street. For 10 cents, they'd sell you almost a pound and eat the whole darn thing. I knocked myself out. K: So you asked old man Watkins, the superintendent . G: I said , "I'd like to get a pass." He said , "Where do you want to go?" I said, "I'd like to go as far as the old rail-road will take me." Well, he says, "We'll give you a pass to Portland, Oregon." So when I got to San Francisco, I got off the train, stayed there, I don't know, three weeks, I guess. From there, I went up to Portland. Stayed quite a while. Got another pass from. . I started to say the Missouri Pacific, Oregon-Washington railroad, something like that. I told them I'd worked for the Southern Pacific and they gave me a pass. So I went to Seattle. I was up there, when the War broke out. - 1914. And many ships were afraid that the Germans were supposed to have a submarine or two out there. They'd come in to Elliott Bay, come into the Bay there for safety. One of these boats, I found out later, came all the way from Halifax clear around Cape Horn, and when they heard about the German submarines , they came into Elliot Bay. It was a cable-laying vesse l . I had an old 5 by 7 camera then. I thought, "My God , I bet those boys-- " they would buy pictures .' I got in a rowboat and rowed out GOLDBECK 25 G: to this cable-laying vessel. It was an old British cable-laying vessel. I had no idea how many . . the captain and the officers, they wouldn't get in with the crew and the engineers wouldn't get in with the firemen and all that sort of thing . I had to make about 7 or 8 dif f erent pictures there. Went back the next day and showed 'em proofs. And they all bought. I said, "Gee whiz, this is a good deal ." So I did the same thing with half a dozen other boats. When I got a little bit of money ahead, in those days I didn't try to save, "l1eck , I am going to layoff some." So I went across to Ellensburg, the ski area; wanted to see what it was like. First thing you know, I had my camera in hock and oh, God. K: Oh. G: I paid a dollar and seventy five cents a week for a nice room there a week! In San Francisco, I had a nice room on Pine Street for six dollars a week. Real nice room . K: Was a very pretty . isn't it? . San Francisco is a beautiful town, G: Yes. I think it is. However, they ' ve got a lot of goofy people there . Gays and God knows what all. K: The train you went past Del Rio . right? With thi s train in 1913, when you took off with this train for the west coast. That's the one down there in the Pecos Mountains that's so famous , that track . over that bridge over t he Pecos? is it? Did you go GOLDBECK G: Yes. Over the Pecos. That was the highest bridge in the world at that time. High bridge. K: They had an anniversary for that for. G: That was the highest bridge in the worln. Now there's a bridge across the Royal Gorge that's at least 1400 fee t high. Pecos Bridge is only 321, I think, if I remember right. K: Do you still have some of the negatives of those trips? Those early trips? 26 G: I hate to say this, but I had a lot of negatives that were thrown away . when I went into the service; we lived where La Villita is now, 204 Vi llita Street , lived there for a long time. K: Which one was that? G: 204 Villita Street. That old well that's down there, was dug by hand by my g r andfather . It's still there; the well is still there. That was before they had running water here in San Antonio. They had to dig their own wel~. I remember this old town when half the peop l e still had outdoor toilets. And also in those days when I was a young man . I remember the town quite v i vidly when it had on l y 60,000 population . My mother remembers it when it had 11,000. But 60,000 population. Very much smaller than it is today. There must have been a trememdous amount of s ickness here at the time because . GOLDBECK G: take Alamo Pl aza , f or instance . there was Dreiss's Drug Store on Alamo Plaza and there was the Lone Star Drug store on the Plaza and the Bear Drug Store on the Plaza . three drug stores. Right across the street from Bear Drug Store was Fis her ' s Drug Store. END OF TAPE I , SIDE 1 , 45 minuteS Tape 1, Side 2 27 G: (Showing photo) That was an old one. That was an old Franklin air coo l ed car. I used to load up the running boards had 3 , 4 movie cameras, everything you could think of . You saw this, I guess . That was up in Austin . K: I want to check the tape first. Today is September 28 , 1983. I 'm again visit ing Mr. Go l dbeck in his living room on Drexel Avenue in San Antonio , Texas. Drexel Avenue . Hello , Mr . Goldbeck , How are you doing today? G: Fine, little lady , thank you . K: And busy . G: I 'm always busy. The only way I can keep out of devilment is to stay busy . K: It i s about quarter past two in the afternoon . Now what have you been doing today, for instance? G: I've been making copies of qui te a number of large GOLDBECK G: panoramic pictures. K: Black and white? You make the black and white-G: Both. Black and white and colored. K: Last Sunday there was a program about you on Charles Kuralt's show on television, on Sunday morning. G: Yes. K: Did you have any response from it? Did you see it yourself? G: Yes. K: Did you like it? G: Yes, I thought it was quite good. Many, many people contacted me from allover the united States. K: To tell you that they liked it. G: Yeah, and wanted to know if they could get copies of some of the pictures. K: And that's what you've been busy now, copying. 28 G: No. I've gotten quite a number of orders. You know I'm supposed to be retired. I don't really need the money, strange as that might sound. My wife raises the devil with me all the time. Says, "Why don't you give it all up?" "Quit, quit, quit." I've got one son put in 35 years at it and he's retired. Takes it very easy. Right now he's gone to see the foliage in New Hampshire and vermont and up in there. He's always on the go having a good time. He says, "Daddy, you're a darn fool. You ought to quit all that." The old bug must have bitten me pretty bad. K: Mr. Goldbeck, the last time we met, we just started GOLDBECK K: out . the year was 1914 and the war began . And you were up in Washington state. G: Seattle. K: And this cable laying vessel came around from Halifax and you discovered a money-making project. G: Yeah , I figured the boys hadn't been off that boat for months and I figured, well , gee, there's a chance to maybe sell pictures. So I rented a rowboat and I rowed out. This cable ship was anchored in Elliot Bay quite a ways out from shore. So I had a rowboat and rowed out there. The captain . "Oh, yes, we' d like to have some pictures made ." It was an English cable-laying vessel. I didn't know there was so much class there. I had to shoot different groups. The engineers didn't want to get in with the firemen , the firemen wouldn't get in with the engineers, the engineers didn 't want to get in with somebody else. Had to make many groups. Half a dozen or more groups . I went back the next day and pretty near everyone wanted copies . K: What kind of a camera was that? G: I had an old 5 by 7 view camera . K: And you did your own developing? Did you have your little portable lab around? G: I could go to any bathroom and make a dark room out of it in 30 minutes. Get a place in a bathroom, that 's all I needed. K: That was , of course, 1914, the beginning of the first World War. It was pretty . 29 GOLDBECK G: It was very , very touchy , yes . K: Was there any chance of you having to join the Forces or anything like that? G: Not at that time, no. I went into the Service in 1917. I went into what they called the Photo Division of the Aviation Section of the Signal Corps . They had no separate Air Force. The first j ob I got was unloading coal cars. K: Where was that? Where were you at that time? 1917? G: I enlisted there were only two places where you could enlist. One was Rochester, New York, Eastman Kodak -Company, or Post Field, Ft. Sill , Oklahoma. So I came down to Ft . Sill; enlisted at Ft. Sill. We were an awful looking army then. We didn't have enough uniforms to go around half of us had civilian clothes on; it was a mess. I remember one night there , they put me on guard. It started to snow. . it was in November, I think, 1917. It started to snow and it got cold as the dickens. I was wearing civilian shoes and had worn holes in my shoes after the old captain there. . I was in the Air Corps then. Army Air Corps, photo Division of the Aviation Section of the Army Air Corps. Anyhow, the squadron that I was in, I went to the old captain and I said, "Captain, I 've got to have some shoes." He says" "I've got a requisition in, I'm doing everything I can. Tell you what you do . You go on sick call tomorrow morning. Maybe the doctor can get you some shoes." So I went on sick call and got in a line . . there were about, I guess there were 30 fellows 30 GOLDBECK 31 G: ahead of me. Finally got up to the old doctor , who asked, "What's the matter with you? " I said, "Doctor, there's nothing really wrong with me but running around here in this snow in these shoes." I showed him the holes. "I'm going to get pneumonia ." He looked at his old Sergeant and said, "Give this man a dose of salts." Instead of shoes, I got a dose of salts. God. K: That was a surprise, wasn't it? G: A couple of days later, I got some shoes. K: Mr. Goldbeck, before, when you were in the northwest in 1914, there was one incident that you talked, told me about once, when you were almost attacked by a . tell me that again? Can you G: I was out making pictures with this 5 by 7 camera , usually wouldn't get in 'til about dark. I was down in the railroad yards in Seattle. And something told me , I don't know , I just had an inkling. . had to pass a big grain elevator . And if I had a gone right up like I was going, I'd be going right next to this grain e levator. But I gave it a wide berth. Sure enough, there was a guy with a big old piece of iron there waiting for me . Going to hit me in the head with it, I guess, I saw him; he ran after me; after a while he gave it up. That was a close call. K: But that wasn't supposed to be back in those days. And then did you stay until 1917 up in Seattle? In that area? G: I was up and down the west coast. GOLDBECK 32 K: But you still didn't have a car; you went by train most of the time? G: By train. I had worked for the Southern Pacific before I went out there. K: In San Antonio. And you sort of got a transfer over there. G: They gave me several passes on the trains. I had 3 jobs on the Southern Pacific. I was a photographer with the Sunset Central lines; I was motor car engineer. They had little motor cars; it was just like an automobile with railroad wheels on it and the officials once a month would go up and down the track, checking the section houses and section gangs and that sort of thing. When I wasn't doing that, I was working in the superintendent 's office above the depot, Southern Pacific depot. K: Did they have such nice train stations in San Antonio allover? Up and down those lines? Were they all so pretty? G: Quite beautiful in those days. K: And isn't it a pity that many of them are torn down today, right? G: There are just a few half-way decent stations left. I don't know if you've been in the Southern Pacific Depot lately, but they've spent a lot of money on the inside; cleaned it all up. K: I'm very pleased with that. And then in 1917, after you enlisted, you still weren't married, though. What year GOLDBECK K: did you marry? G: 1919. When I got out of the Service. K: From 1917 to 1919 you were stationed in the United States? G: Practically all the time, yes. The way I met my wife . I don't know if this is interesting or not 33 I made one record, I think, in the Service. They evidently couldn't stand my looks. I was only in 21 months, I think it was, transferred me 21 times. They couldn't stand my looks. They'd shoot me around different bases. Soon as the Commanding Officer of that base got through with me, all the pictures he wanted made, he released me and Washington sent me somewhere else. Finally sent me to Camp Jackson, South Carolina, 81st Division. The general of the 81st Division was named Bailey. He said, "Goldbeck, I want to take you with me. I want you to be my Division photographer overseas." I had just put in for a commission. I had enlisted as a buck private. Put in for a commission. Took a couple of examinations for Second Lieutenant at that time, they had a southeastern department in Charleston. In the military everything has to go through channels. Well, this adjutant of the 81st Division took my papers and threw 'em in the Washington basket in p lace of throwing 'em in the Charleston basket. The result was, my papers went to Washington direct and they sent ' em back, said, 'send 'em through channels.' In the meantime, the 81st Division took off without me. GOLDBECK 34 G: They sent me up to Columbia University to the Signal Corps School of Photography there as an instructor instead of going overseas with the Blst Division. That's where I met my ,"life. She was \Vorking at Columbia University in the University's book store. That's where I met her. NOW if that fellow had had one less beer that day, the adjutant of the Division putting my papers in the wrong basket, I'd have probably gotten bumped off overseas. One little thing like that can change your whole life. K: And your wife is a native New Yorker. G: Yes. She \Vas born in New York City. I was born right here in San Antonio. K: Did you court for a long time or did you get married soon? G: Quite a while, yes. In those days, she lived way up in washington Heights, lBlst Street. That was a select section of New York at the time. Now it's all Puerto Rican and God knows what. She used to ride the subway every day or every night. She'd sometimes work late at night and, by herself, go up there; nobody bothered her. Can't do anything like that now. It's terrible. K: And you spotted her right the first day you were at Columbia university? Did you spot your wife soon after you got to Columbia? G: No. I don't think the first day, but I met her shortly after I got there, yes. K: Then you took many pictures of her. GOLDBECK 35 G: Well, quite a few, yes. We started going out on Sundays. Whenever s he could get off, I would take her home at night and all that sort of stuff. First thing you know, we became engaged. And in 1919, got married. And we've been married ever since. K: Wonderful. G: 64 years. K: It's almost the diamond; it's more than the diamond, isn't it? 50 is the golden anniversary. G: 65, well, that's next year. K: That's the diamond. G: 75 is the diamond. K: Wonderful. You have had a very happy marriage. How many children did you have? G: We had 5. We lost the only girl we had . Only 21 months old. And we lost one boy K: Missing in action. missing in World War II. G: Missing; that's all we ever knew. K: In the Pacific or Europe? G: Actually, he was a radio operator on an Air Force boat. This boat was run by the British Merchant Marine. This was a mixed up affair. And they got into, evidently, a very high wind coming back from Puerto Rico to Miami. They were based in Miami . An Air Force boat; they'd take Air Force parts to various Air Force bases. And they were coming back to Miami and they got into a storm and he ,'las washed overboard. They couldn't search for him on account of GOLDBECK G: submarines were there, you know and . she almost went crazy. K: Tragic. G: Had a terrific nervous breakdown. 36 . my poor wife, K: Mr. Goldbeck, when you got out of the service, it was 1919. You came back down to San Antonio. G: First made a lot of pictures around New York and boys coming back from overseas. And pictures of many, many thousands of those boys. K: Dough boys. Did you get the one black regiment, too? G: No. K: And then did you finally come to San Antonio? Return to San Antonio? G: 19. I guess 1921. K: And you set up residence here in San Antonio. G: Well, I lived here with my wife, yes. K: But this house, here on Drexel Avenue •.• when did you build this house? G: 1929, I guess. We built that place in back two years earlier. '27. K: What's now your studio. G: No one ever lived in it. It's not really a studio. It's just a shop, workshop, that's all. Would you like to go back there and see it? ******** K: So all of your children were born in San Antonio? And went to school here, also. GOLDBECK 37 G: All of 'em went to school here, yes. K: Was a busy time for you. And you photographed • did you ever have a shop in San Antonio? A store, or a studio? For photography? G: No. K: You were most of the time traveling? G: Well, I made hundreds of pictures. I guess a couple of thousand would probably be nearer right, out at Ft. Sam Houston in those early days. Used to go out there every day. Photograph those different units. K: Do you still have photos when they first started the Air Force at Ft. Sam Houston in the 20's, '27, I think. G: Maybe one or two. K: Do you remember when they shot the movie WINGS at Ft. Sam Houston? G: Yes. Very well. K: Did you help along there? G: Well, not a great deal. Very little, in fact. Then after that, they shot another movie out here, called, Teddy Roosevelt, ROUGH RIDERS. Out at the old fair grounds. K: Did you by any chance, attend the premiere of the movie WINGS at the Texas theater on Houston Street? G: I think I did. K: And you remember that theater, too? G: Oh, yes. Very well. K: Was brand new then. That was a new wave in those days, wasn't it? GOLDBECK G: Yeah. K: To build these magnificent movie theaters . G: Well, we had the Majestic. . was another beautiful one. And the Aztec was also very beautiful at the time • considered. K: And the Empire. G: Very good. It wasn't quite as fancy. K: Not as large, either. 38 G: That Empire, years ago , that's where the Turner Hall, they had a--Turners used to have a place in there. That was years ago. K: Mr . Goldbeck, when they had all these theaters on Houston Street and Commerce Street , at the time they had all these theaters like the Majest ic and Texas. G: The Royal was another very popular K: And they were always crowded and .? G: Yes. You could get into a movie then, best seats , probably for 75 cents. 50 cents. K: And afterwards, would you go to the Gunter Hotel or the St. Anthony Hotel? For some entertainment? Those hotels were pretty fancy, too, weren't they? G: My wife and I used to the Gunter had a nice roof garden there a long time. We'd eat up there once in a while. Fact of the matter is, our first- born, Bobby , we used to roll him around in the baby carriage; take him with us wherever we went. K: That must have been beautiful. GOLDBECK G: Up on top of the roof; any place. K: They also had stage shows on those theaters, didn't they? G: Oh, yes. Had stage shows, too. K: Fancy ones. 39 in those G: The Main theater was the old Grand Opera House on Alamo Plaza. That finally turned into a movie theater, too, but in the early days it was all stage shows. K: And opera, too, of course. G: Oh, yes. K: And symphony? G: Oh, yes. The symphony, actually, was a later deal. They used to play in the Auditorium. K: It didn't form 'til '35, or so. Why did they tear the Opera building down? Do you remember that? G: They never tore the Opera house down. They changed the back of it. They didn't tear it down. The whole thing was remodeled in such a way it looked like it was torn down. Green grocery outfit went into it. Right next to that Opera House, there was a very fine old restaurant, German, Bismarck Cafe. Good meal in there; for a dollar you could get all the food you wanted. Very good food. K: San Antonio was a very busy town, wasn't it, very cultured, also. G: I think so. Originally, you might say the Germans moved into San Antonio, most every place else around here, New Braunfels, Fredericksburg, Comfort, Boerne. . many GOLDBECK 40 G: Germans came in. And my mother said she remembered when San Antonio had 11,000 population ••. almost all Germans. NOW the Spanish speaking are taking over. 52, 53 percent, officially. K: Do you remember when they had the first rodeo in San Antonio? G: Yes. I remember it quite well. Made a lot of pictures. K: And those negatives would be now at the university or do you still have them? G: I think they're all up at the University. They were all small negatives. Action pictures; getting thrown off the horse. K: And also when the circus came to town, you took photos, didn't you? G: I've got some of those negatives yet. Old circus negatives. Ringling Brothers; Barnum & Bailey. K: That big tent. G: They used to have a big parade • in the early days they'd only play here one day. Parade in the morning and they'd have an afternoon show about 2 o'clock and have a show that night. Next day, they'd go to Austin, or Houston, some place else. Never stayed. Population ;iasn't large enough to warrant staying more than one day. K: And they had their own caravan or did they utilize the train when they packed up? G: All trains. But many, many had all their own cars. They'd just carry a whole menagerie with them, too. GOLDBECK 41 K: Mr. Goldbeck, do you remember also, the Hot Wells Hotel? On Presa. G: Yeah, I remember it well. Yes. E. H. Harriman, one of the biggest railroad men, I guess, financiers, that the country has ever had . when he got sick, he used to corne spent several winters at the Hot Wells Hotel. They had a real nice hotel there. K: That must have been pretty. G: They had the sulphur baths there. Those wells are still running as far as I know. But the hotel burned down in 1926. Many, many people from the north would corne here and spend winter out there at the Hot Wells Hotel. K: Did you ever take a photograph of that? G: Oh, yes. Of what? K: Did you ever take a photo of the Hot Wells Hotel? F: Oh, yes. I've got a photo now out there of the bath house. I made a very fine picture . they had it on display . at Laguna Gloria. (ed. Austin) K: San Antonio in those days was a very lovely town and very well visited, too, wasn't it? G: Oh, yes. Many people carne here, especial~ during the winter months. Didn't have this river deal yet. K: But it also was very cultured. The population of San Antonio. I read someplace where it was the most important town in Texas 'til about 1930. G: It was the largest city, you know, for many, many years. Much larger than Houston; much larger than Dallas. Finally GOLDBECK G: those two towns out-stripped us. Houston now's got pretty near a million and a half people. 42 Snithsonian Institution came and got a lot of my stuff. I think I told you that. K: No, you didn't. G: Yeah, they sent a representative down here. K: I'm glad. Was that recently? G: Oh, yes. They borrowed a whole lot of my stuff and I just got it back here. The Smithsonian copied all that stuff. K: I'm glad. You don't remember the name of anybody from those people, do you? G: Somewhere out there I've got a card, I'm sure. Can't tell you off-hand. K: Some photos that I have seen of yours, those panoramic photos, stand out in my mind. One is of those bathing beauties in Galveston, on Galveston beach. G: Well, I made the first six bathing beauties, beauty reviews, down there. Started in 1920, '21, '22, '23, '24, '25, I think I made six. Then Atlantic City said, "Say, this is a good deal." They used to bring thousands and thousands of people for those reviews. Of course in those days, those girls used to see how much they could keep on, but now, I don't blush very easily, but if I had to make a picture of a bathing girl review out in Waikiki, for instance, I think I'd blush. They wear bikinis out there, some of 'em, about 2 inches wide; a fig leaf would cover four Goldbeck G: times as much. I don't think I could stand it. K: Your camera might explode, too, or something. (laughter) G: It's possible. K:The other photograph that I remember vividly is the one when they had the Ku Klux Klan lined up. Can you tell me about that event? G: In those days, that was in the 20's •.• I think I took a picture in , 24. When the Dallas Klan came down here, visiting in San Antonio, in their regalia, the Ku Klux Klan regalia;had their suits on. And the San Antonio Klan, they were all mounted. (horses); they didn't have their regalia on at all. At that time, believe it or not, there were two parades in Washington, D.C. with over a hundred thousand robed Klansmen in each parade. 1921. Politicians couldn't get to first base unless they joined the Klan in those days . K:When was it ••• 192l? G: In the 20's, about '22, '23, '24, '25, along in there. But there were two parades in Washington in one year. And each one had over a hundred thousand robed Klansmen in it. Washington, D.C. K: And you weren't there with your camera. G: No , I wasn't. K: Did you line them up, or did they line up for you on Alamo Plaza or where was that photo taken? G: I don't remember. That was probably out at the old fair grounds, I imagine. 43 GOLDBECK 44 K: Where were the old fair grounds? G: Old fair grounds was on Presa Street, about 3 miles out , between Presa and Roosevelt Avenue . Incidently, the street car used to run all the way out there and about a mile past. Went out to what they called the South Texas Insane Asylum. They used to call it. Now they call it something else . Just this side of the Insane Asylum was Schuermeier Park. An old German Park. My father used to take us kids, when we were little, on Sundays. You know, they had a big swing there; soda water 5 cents a bottle. We always wanted strawberry. It must have been about half dye; because when you'd get through drinking it, your whole face would be red. K: What was the man's name, again? G: Schuermeier, I think it was. Schuermeier's Park. That was later turned into our first movie stage. They made movies out there. Maclyn Arbuckle , and several rather prominent movie people at that time. That was a way back; turned into a movie stage. (ed. see Specht interview) K: Where they f ilmed movies. And then the third photo that I really enjoy a lot, also , is the border patrol in front of the old Fords. Were those Model T's? G: What? K: The border patrol in front of their cars. The border patrol is lying down. G: I made several shots of them, I think. That was made right by the Rio Grande. GOLDBECK K: Was it Laredo or where was it? G: If I remember right, it was Del Rio, just below Del Rio. 45 K: That's an interesting bit. . just with the cars, it looks very interesting. Which one was your favorite photo--that you have taken? G: Oh, I don't know. I've got a number of favorites. I think one of my favorite color photos is Peter the Great's summer palace in Leningrad. And also, think the one I made of Monte Carlo was an outstanding picture. And in black and whites, I think the pyramids, one, and then another one is probably Machu picchu in Peru. K: The Monte Carlo photo, did you ever send that to Princess Grace? G: I sent a copy of that to Princess Grace and Prince Rainier and I got a beautiful letter back from them. K: Wonderful. G: And I've got a very beautiful picture of London and I sent o~of those to Queen Elizabeth. Got a beautiful letter back from her. K: That's nice. The photograph in . which national park is that again, that one of the photographers requested from you? The one photograph in the national park? G: Yosemite National Park. K: In California. G: I carried my camera clear up 8500 feet above Yosemite; way up; and shot down on it. You can see a couple of GOLDBECK G: waterfalls, the whole thing there. And Ansel Adams ordered that from me several times. K: That's in black and white. G: No, it's in color. 46 K: How do you determine from where to shoot; which vantage point to use for a photo? G: Well, just scout around a little bit. You've got to use your head. K: You hike around and then .•. G: Look the situation over and then make the picture from the point you figure it's going to look best from. Of course, I make a l ot o f mistakes in that respect; maybe I can find a better place. Somebody else could probably find a better place. K: Could you please tell me the story, when you took a photograph of a mountain peak and you were covered by a J apanese soldier? G: That was in 19 37. Japan was warring on China at the time. And things were very touchy at the time. I was in Japan and I wanted to get a nice reflection of Fujijama in Lake Hakoni. And while I was making this picture, about 12 feet behind me, was a bunch of bushes and I heard a rustle back there and I thought well, some animal was back there. When I got through making my picture, I went to investigate and there was a Japanese with a camera. I went up to him and said, "You're Japanese secret service, aren't you?" and all I got was a big grin. Asked him two, three more GOLDBECK 47 G: questions and a ll I could get out of him was a grin. I finally reached in my pocket and pulled out a yen note, I said, "Look, no bribe. You turn this over to whatever department you work for. I know you made pictures of me . When you get through with the pictures you made of me, please send me copies ." Four years after termination of World War II , I got a box of p l ates from the Japanese government--two plates, and very good pictures that fe llow made of me . K: G: K: You developed them and. .? Oh , yeah , I made prints; I got copies out there. We:re you very busy photographing during the war or before the Second World War, also? G: I've always been busy. K: When you started to take a lot of military photographs, military units , etc., that kept you busy for many years , didn't it? G: Yeah, 33 years, I made the complete rounds of military. Didn't make any difference where they were; where they were stationed. I used to go to China every 3 years. We had the 15th Infantry there. Stayed there 'til World War II started and they pull ed them out of there; just b e fore World War II started. Pulled ' em out of there. But they were there f or many , many years . No, I'll tell you all about it. I'm wrong . They moved in there after World War I. They took over the German compound in Tientsin. 15th Infantry stayed there from Ivorld War I up to World War II. I used GOLDBECK 48 G: to make the complete rounds of military . didn't make any difference where they were. Puerto Rico, take the 65th Infantry there; go down to Panama and photograph all the troops in Panama. If we had any Marines in Santo Domingo or Nicaragua, or any place , I took pictures of Marines. Then the next year, I'd start out to the Philippines, photographed the Philippine department, go up to China with the 15th Infantry . On the way back, stop in Honolulu and photograph all the troops in Hawaii. The following year, I'd start at West Point; photograph all over the United States. It'd take me a whole year to do that. K: Did you photograph Pearl Harbor before the attack there? Do you remember? G: I made pictures that showed Pearl Harbor, sure. I made many pictures of Honolulu from high elevations so Pearl Harbor was in the picture , sure. K: And the negatives, of course, are at the University of Texas now? You said you gave a lot of negatives to the University . G: 60,000. K: Do you know what they're doing with them? Have they catalogued .? G: Catalogued. They're taking good care of them got ' ern in special . one whole f loor there just turned over to those negatives. Keep certain temperature there. I lost several thousand very valuable negatives having them stored in the attic up above my shop; got so hot; a lot of them GOLDBECK 49 G: destroyed. Thousands of negatives. K: That's pitiful, isn't it. That's really sad. When you traveled, you must have met many, many famous people also in your travels. Or some that became your good friends, also? G: I met a lot of people. One time I was going down to Panama. In the early days, it took 5 days to fly from here to Panama. 5 days. Now you can go down the re in a couple of hours. There was no airline out of here direct to Panama. The only airline that went down to Panama in those days was Pan American. They flew out of Brownsville. Didn't come here. Went out there by train to Brownsville. That was one day in Brownsville, gone. Didn't do any night flying, you know. First day from Brownsville, they dumped you off in Mexico City, stay there overnight. Next day, they take you to Guatemala City and stay there overnight. The fourth day, they dumped you off in San Salvador, stay there overnight. On the 5th day, you'd get to Panama. One time I was going down there, I got on a plane at Brownsville and who the heck was on the plane but . . I saw Will Rogers. I sat with him all the way down there. That was in 1933, I guess, '32 maybe. '33, I guess it was. Anyhow, I got to talking with him. We sat together all the way from. . to Mexico City and then the next day I sat with him. lie says, "You know, I'm going over to see that fellow, Hitler." He never did get to go but he could kid the pants off the president, anybody else. If he'd gone GOLDBECK 50 G: over there, maybe Hitler would have changed his mind. K: He was quite something, wasn't he? G: He was a good man; old Will Rogers. I've got the last picture ever made of him. I didn't make them; fellow made it up in Alaska the day before he was killed. K: And he sent it to you. He mailed it to you? G: I got a copy of it. K: It must have been an experience to meet this man, wasn't it? G: One time I was going out west, driving out there, I thought, well, I'll stop and make another picture of the Grand Canyon. I got over there and I saw an old gentleman standing looking over the Grand Canyon, I said, that looks like Albert Einstein'S pictures I'd seen. I went over to where he was and said, "Pardon me, sir, aren't you Dr. Einstein?" He said, "Yes. II And I said, "Is this charming lady next to you Hrs. Einstein?" He said, "Yes." I said, "Do you mind if I make a picture of you?" "No." So I went over and borrowed an Indian war bonnet from one of the Hopi Indians and got a couple of them to come over there with me and I shot a picture of old Albert Einstein and his wife. K: Wonderful. You made him a copy then, didn't you? G: Oh, yeah. K: That's a case when you're in the right spot at the right time, isn't it. And that is really exhilarating. G: I didn't know he was there until I ran into him. Just recently I made a picture of J. Paul Getty GOLDBECK 51 G: Museum out in Malibu. It's really a very outstanding place. I forget how many millions. I think it said 26 million dollars--the property he bought--and he built this museum and all. And in it he put all of his many millions of dollars worth of art objects he'd been accumulating over the years. He built it to house his art objects. He willed the whole thing over to, I think, the Getty Trust or something. They run the Museum. He told 'em he wasn't going to leave 'em very much money in his will. But he did. He left them seven hundred million dollars worth of oil stock and today that's worth a billion, five hundred million. They told me out there, they've got so much money coming in, they don't know what to do with it. They don't know how to spend it. ( I'll tell you how to spend it. \~e' ve got a little museum in San Antonio, . ~ havlng a hard tlme making ends meet. I said, "Why don't you spread the money around?" nOh,1I they said, "according to the will, we have to spend it right here in this Museum. Got to spend it all right here in this Museum." Their income, they said, is over twenty million dollars a year. Twenty million dollars a year! Income! And it's growing all the time. K: It's a shame they can't share it, isn't it? G: Twenty million dollars a year and according to the will, they can't spread it around. It must all be spent there. So they cannot give to the Metropolitan Museum of Art of the Louvre or any other museum anywhere in the world. If the GOLDBECK 52 G: Metropolitan Museum of Art wanted a certain painting an
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