Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds”

International audience In a recent study, O’Neill et al. analyzed the divergence of surface winds above the northwest Atlantic. In the time mean, a band of convergence is found, overlying the southern flank of the Gulf Stream. To quantify the impact of synoptic storms, the authors proposed to compar...

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Published in:Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences
Main Authors: Plougonven, Riwal, Foussard, Alexis, Lapeyre, Guillaume
Other Authors: Laboratoire de Météorologie Dynamique (UMR 8539) (LMD), Institut national des sciences de l'Univers (INSU - CNRS)-École polytechnique (X), Institut Polytechnique de Paris (IP Paris)-Institut Polytechnique de Paris (IP Paris)-École des Ponts ParisTech (ENPC)-Sorbonne Université (SU)-Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique (CNRS)-Département des Géosciences - ENS Paris, École normale supérieure - Paris (ENS-PSL), Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-École normale supérieure - Paris (ENS-PSL), Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)
Format: Article in Journal/Newspaper
Language:English
Published: HAL CCSD 2018
Subjects:
Online Access:https://hal.science/hal-02050255
https://hal.science/hal-02050255/document
https://hal.science/hal-02050255/file/gscz_comment_v03a.pdf
https://doi.org/10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1
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spelling ftecoleponts:oai:HAL:hal-02050255v1 2024-09-15T18:26:23+00:00 Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds” Plougonven, Riwal Foussard, Alexis Lapeyre, Guillaume Laboratoire de Météorologie Dynamique (UMR 8539) (LMD) Institut national des sciences de l'Univers (INSU - CNRS)-École polytechnique (X) Institut Polytechnique de Paris (IP Paris)-Institut Polytechnique de Paris (IP Paris)-École des Ponts ParisTech (ENPC)-Sorbonne Université (SU)-Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique (CNRS)-Département des Géosciences - ENS Paris École normale supérieure - Paris (ENS-PSL) Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-École normale supérieure - Paris (ENS-PSL) Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL) 2018 https://hal.science/hal-02050255 https://hal.science/hal-02050255/document https://hal.science/hal-02050255/file/gscz_comment_v03a.pdf https://doi.org/10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1 en eng HAL CCSD American Meteorological Society info:eu-repo/semantics/altIdentifier/doi/10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1 hal-02050255 https://hal.science/hal-02050255 https://hal.science/hal-02050255/document https://hal.science/hal-02050255/file/gscz_comment_v03a.pdf doi:10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1 info:eu-repo/semantics/OpenAccess ISSN: 0022-4928 EISSN: 1520-0469 Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences https://hal.science/hal-02050255 Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences, 2018, 75 (6), pp.2139-2149. ⟨10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1⟩ Storm tracks Atmosphere-ocean interaction [SDU.OCEAN]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Ocean Atmosphere [PHYS.PHYS.PHYS-AO-PH]Physics [physics]/Physics [physics]/Atmospheric and Oceanic Physics [physics.ao-ph] [SDU.STU.ME]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Earth Sciences/Meteorology info:eu-repo/semantics/article Journal articles 2018 ftecoleponts https://doi.org/10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1 2024-08-13T23:47:27Z International audience In a recent study, O’Neill et al. analyzed the divergence of surface winds above the northwest Atlantic. In the time mean, a band of convergence is found, overlying the southern flank of the Gulf Stream. To quantify the impact of synoptic storms, the authors proposed to compare the time-mean divergence with the divergence averaged in the absence of rain. In the resulting conditional-average field, divergence was found to be positive nearly everywhere. O'Neill et al. concluded that this absence of convergence precludes the Ekman-balanced mass adjustment to be responsible for the atmospheric response above the Gulf Stream. Using a simplistic toy model as well as a numerical simulation representative of a storm track, we show that the absence of negative divergence values purely results from the correlation between rain and convergence: the conditional average based on the absence of rain necessarily implies a shift toward positive divergence values. In consequence, we argue that conditional statistics (based on the absence of rain or removing extreme values in the divergence field), as produced by O’Neill et al., do not allow conclusions on the mechanisms underlying the atmospheric response to the Gulf Stream. They nevertheless highlight the essential role of synoptic storms in shaping the divergence field in instantaneous fields. Article in Journal/Newspaper Northwest Atlantic École des Ponts ParisTech: HAL Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences 75 6 2139 2149
institution Open Polar
collection École des Ponts ParisTech: HAL
op_collection_id ftecoleponts
language English
topic Storm tracks
Atmosphere-ocean interaction
[SDU.OCEAN]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Ocean
Atmosphere
[PHYS.PHYS.PHYS-AO-PH]Physics [physics]/Physics [physics]/Atmospheric and Oceanic Physics [physics.ao-ph]
[SDU.STU.ME]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Earth Sciences/Meteorology
spellingShingle Storm tracks
Atmosphere-ocean interaction
[SDU.OCEAN]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Ocean
Atmosphere
[PHYS.PHYS.PHYS-AO-PH]Physics [physics]/Physics [physics]/Atmospheric and Oceanic Physics [physics.ao-ph]
[SDU.STU.ME]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Earth Sciences/Meteorology
Plougonven, Riwal
Foussard, Alexis
Lapeyre, Guillaume
Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds”
topic_facet Storm tracks
Atmosphere-ocean interaction
[SDU.OCEAN]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Ocean
Atmosphere
[PHYS.PHYS.PHYS-AO-PH]Physics [physics]/Physics [physics]/Atmospheric and Oceanic Physics [physics.ao-ph]
[SDU.STU.ME]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Earth Sciences/Meteorology
description International audience In a recent study, O’Neill et al. analyzed the divergence of surface winds above the northwest Atlantic. In the time mean, a band of convergence is found, overlying the southern flank of the Gulf Stream. To quantify the impact of synoptic storms, the authors proposed to compare the time-mean divergence with the divergence averaged in the absence of rain. In the resulting conditional-average field, divergence was found to be positive nearly everywhere. O'Neill et al. concluded that this absence of convergence precludes the Ekman-balanced mass adjustment to be responsible for the atmospheric response above the Gulf Stream. Using a simplistic toy model as well as a numerical simulation representative of a storm track, we show that the absence of negative divergence values purely results from the correlation between rain and convergence: the conditional average based on the absence of rain necessarily implies a shift toward positive divergence values. In consequence, we argue that conditional statistics (based on the absence of rain or removing extreme values in the divergence field), as produced by O’Neill et al., do not allow conclusions on the mechanisms underlying the atmospheric response to the Gulf Stream. They nevertheless highlight the essential role of synoptic storms in shaping the divergence field in instantaneous fields.
author2 Laboratoire de Météorologie Dynamique (UMR 8539) (LMD)
Institut national des sciences de l'Univers (INSU - CNRS)-École polytechnique (X)
Institut Polytechnique de Paris (IP Paris)-Institut Polytechnique de Paris (IP Paris)-École des Ponts ParisTech (ENPC)-Sorbonne Université (SU)-Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique (CNRS)-Département des Géosciences - ENS Paris
École normale supérieure - Paris (ENS-PSL)
Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-École normale supérieure - Paris (ENS-PSL)
Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)
format Article in Journal/Newspaper
author Plougonven, Riwal
Foussard, Alexis
Lapeyre, Guillaume
author_facet Plougonven, Riwal
Foussard, Alexis
Lapeyre, Guillaume
author_sort Plougonven, Riwal
title Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds”
title_short Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds”
title_full Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds”
title_fullStr Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds”
title_full_unstemmed Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds”
title_sort comments on “the gulf stream convergence zone in the time-mean winds”
publisher HAL CCSD
publishDate 2018
url https://hal.science/hal-02050255
https://hal.science/hal-02050255/document
https://hal.science/hal-02050255/file/gscz_comment_v03a.pdf
https://doi.org/10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1
genre Northwest Atlantic
genre_facet Northwest Atlantic
op_source ISSN: 0022-4928
EISSN: 1520-0469
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences
https://hal.science/hal-02050255
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences, 2018, 75 (6), pp.2139-2149. ⟨10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1⟩
op_relation info:eu-repo/semantics/altIdentifier/doi/10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1
hal-02050255
https://hal.science/hal-02050255
https://hal.science/hal-02050255/document
https://hal.science/hal-02050255/file/gscz_comment_v03a.pdf
doi:10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1
op_rights info:eu-repo/semantics/OpenAccess
op_doi https://doi.org/10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1
container_title Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences
container_volume 75
container_issue 6
container_start_page 2139
op_container_end_page 2149
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