Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds”
International audience In a recent study, O’Neill et al. analyzed the divergence of surface winds above the northwest Atlantic. In the time mean, a band of convergence is found, overlying the southern flank of the Gulf Stream. To quantify the impact of synoptic storms, the authors proposed to compar...
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ftecoleponts:oai:HAL:hal-02050255v1 2024-09-15T18:26:23+00:00 Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds” Plougonven, Riwal Foussard, Alexis Lapeyre, Guillaume Laboratoire de Météorologie Dynamique (UMR 8539) (LMD) Institut national des sciences de l'Univers (INSU - CNRS)-École polytechnique (X) Institut Polytechnique de Paris (IP Paris)-Institut Polytechnique de Paris (IP Paris)-École des Ponts ParisTech (ENPC)-Sorbonne Université (SU)-Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique (CNRS)-Département des Géosciences - ENS Paris École normale supérieure - Paris (ENS-PSL) Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-École normale supérieure - Paris (ENS-PSL) Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL) 2018 https://hal.science/hal-02050255 https://hal.science/hal-02050255/document https://hal.science/hal-02050255/file/gscz_comment_v03a.pdf https://doi.org/10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1 en eng HAL CCSD American Meteorological Society info:eu-repo/semantics/altIdentifier/doi/10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1 hal-02050255 https://hal.science/hal-02050255 https://hal.science/hal-02050255/document https://hal.science/hal-02050255/file/gscz_comment_v03a.pdf doi:10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1 info:eu-repo/semantics/OpenAccess ISSN: 0022-4928 EISSN: 1520-0469 Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences https://hal.science/hal-02050255 Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences, 2018, 75 (6), pp.2139-2149. ⟨10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1⟩ Storm tracks Atmosphere-ocean interaction [SDU.OCEAN]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Ocean Atmosphere [PHYS.PHYS.PHYS-AO-PH]Physics [physics]/Physics [physics]/Atmospheric and Oceanic Physics [physics.ao-ph] [SDU.STU.ME]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Earth Sciences/Meteorology info:eu-repo/semantics/article Journal articles 2018 ftecoleponts https://doi.org/10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1 2024-08-13T23:47:27Z International audience In a recent study, O’Neill et al. analyzed the divergence of surface winds above the northwest Atlantic. In the time mean, a band of convergence is found, overlying the southern flank of the Gulf Stream. To quantify the impact of synoptic storms, the authors proposed to compare the time-mean divergence with the divergence averaged in the absence of rain. In the resulting conditional-average field, divergence was found to be positive nearly everywhere. O'Neill et al. concluded that this absence of convergence precludes the Ekman-balanced mass adjustment to be responsible for the atmospheric response above the Gulf Stream. Using a simplistic toy model as well as a numerical simulation representative of a storm track, we show that the absence of negative divergence values purely results from the correlation between rain and convergence: the conditional average based on the absence of rain necessarily implies a shift toward positive divergence values. In consequence, we argue that conditional statistics (based on the absence of rain or removing extreme values in the divergence field), as produced by O’Neill et al., do not allow conclusions on the mechanisms underlying the atmospheric response to the Gulf Stream. They nevertheless highlight the essential role of synoptic storms in shaping the divergence field in instantaneous fields. Article in Journal/Newspaper Northwest Atlantic École des Ponts ParisTech: HAL Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences 75 6 2139 2149 |
institution |
Open Polar |
collection |
École des Ponts ParisTech: HAL |
op_collection_id |
ftecoleponts |
language |
English |
topic |
Storm tracks Atmosphere-ocean interaction [SDU.OCEAN]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Ocean Atmosphere [PHYS.PHYS.PHYS-AO-PH]Physics [physics]/Physics [physics]/Atmospheric and Oceanic Physics [physics.ao-ph] [SDU.STU.ME]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Earth Sciences/Meteorology |
spellingShingle |
Storm tracks Atmosphere-ocean interaction [SDU.OCEAN]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Ocean Atmosphere [PHYS.PHYS.PHYS-AO-PH]Physics [physics]/Physics [physics]/Atmospheric and Oceanic Physics [physics.ao-ph] [SDU.STU.ME]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Earth Sciences/Meteorology Plougonven, Riwal Foussard, Alexis Lapeyre, Guillaume Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds” |
topic_facet |
Storm tracks Atmosphere-ocean interaction [SDU.OCEAN]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Ocean Atmosphere [PHYS.PHYS.PHYS-AO-PH]Physics [physics]/Physics [physics]/Atmospheric and Oceanic Physics [physics.ao-ph] [SDU.STU.ME]Sciences of the Universe [physics]/Earth Sciences/Meteorology |
description |
International audience In a recent study, O’Neill et al. analyzed the divergence of surface winds above the northwest Atlantic. In the time mean, a band of convergence is found, overlying the southern flank of the Gulf Stream. To quantify the impact of synoptic storms, the authors proposed to compare the time-mean divergence with the divergence averaged in the absence of rain. In the resulting conditional-average field, divergence was found to be positive nearly everywhere. O'Neill et al. concluded that this absence of convergence precludes the Ekman-balanced mass adjustment to be responsible for the atmospheric response above the Gulf Stream. Using a simplistic toy model as well as a numerical simulation representative of a storm track, we show that the absence of negative divergence values purely results from the correlation between rain and convergence: the conditional average based on the absence of rain necessarily implies a shift toward positive divergence values. In consequence, we argue that conditional statistics (based on the absence of rain or removing extreme values in the divergence field), as produced by O’Neill et al., do not allow conclusions on the mechanisms underlying the atmospheric response to the Gulf Stream. They nevertheless highlight the essential role of synoptic storms in shaping the divergence field in instantaneous fields. |
author2 |
Laboratoire de Météorologie Dynamique (UMR 8539) (LMD) Institut national des sciences de l'Univers (INSU - CNRS)-École polytechnique (X) Institut Polytechnique de Paris (IP Paris)-Institut Polytechnique de Paris (IP Paris)-École des Ponts ParisTech (ENPC)-Sorbonne Université (SU)-Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique (CNRS)-Département des Géosciences - ENS Paris École normale supérieure - Paris (ENS-PSL) Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-École normale supérieure - Paris (ENS-PSL) Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL)-Université Paris Sciences et Lettres (PSL) |
format |
Article in Journal/Newspaper |
author |
Plougonven, Riwal Foussard, Alexis Lapeyre, Guillaume |
author_facet |
Plougonven, Riwal Foussard, Alexis Lapeyre, Guillaume |
author_sort |
Plougonven, Riwal |
title |
Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds” |
title_short |
Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds” |
title_full |
Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds” |
title_fullStr |
Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds” |
title_full_unstemmed |
Comments on “The Gulf Stream Convergence Zone in the Time-Mean Winds” |
title_sort |
comments on “the gulf stream convergence zone in the time-mean winds” |
publisher |
HAL CCSD |
publishDate |
2018 |
url |
https://hal.science/hal-02050255 https://hal.science/hal-02050255/document https://hal.science/hal-02050255/file/gscz_comment_v03a.pdf https://doi.org/10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1 |
genre |
Northwest Atlantic |
genre_facet |
Northwest Atlantic |
op_source |
ISSN: 0022-4928 EISSN: 1520-0469 Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences https://hal.science/hal-02050255 Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences, 2018, 75 (6), pp.2139-2149. ⟨10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1⟩ |
op_relation |
info:eu-repo/semantics/altIdentifier/doi/10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1 hal-02050255 https://hal.science/hal-02050255 https://hal.science/hal-02050255/document https://hal.science/hal-02050255/file/gscz_comment_v03a.pdf doi:10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1 |
op_rights |
info:eu-repo/semantics/OpenAccess |
op_doi |
https://doi.org/10.1175/JAS-D-17-0369.1 |
container_title |
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences |
container_volume |
75 |
container_issue |
6 |
container_start_page |
2139 |
op_container_end_page |
2149 |
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1810466861367689216 |