Interview with Richard Zeni

• Main Author: Zeni, Richard.
• Format: Text
• Language: English
• Published: University of Texas at San Antonio 2005
• Subjects: United States > Armed Forces.; Military; Oral History Interviews; Alabama; Austin; Brooklyn; Cape Kennedy; Crawford; Dickens; Gato; Gunner; Kane; Lanes; Long Island; Marcos; Morse; Orleans; Pacific; Payne; Petty; Reeves; St. Louis; The Gate; The Landing; Wilkins; Iceland; morse
• Online Access: http://digital.utsa.edu/cdm/ref/collection/p15125coll4/id/2013

Richard Zeni, October 22, 2005 Zeni served inteh US Navy Reserve from 1943-1946, the US Naval Air Reserves from 1946-1969 and the US Naval Retired Reserves from 1969-1984. Topics: experiences in Reserves Interviewee: Mr. Richard Zeni Interviewer: Reagan Wilkins (student) Location: Public Library, San Marcos, Texas Wilkins: Today is Saturday, October 22,2005, and we are interviewing Richard Zeni (Mr. Zeni corrects the pronunciation of his name). Mr. Zeni is eighty-one years old, having been born on August 12,1924. My name is Reagan Wilkins, and I'll be the interviewer. We are in the library in San Marcos, Texas. Okay, Mr. Zeni? ZENI: Yes? Wilkins: So, before you joined the Navy, where were you living? ZENI: I lived in Brooklyn, New York. Wilkins: Okay, how old were you when you decided to join? ZENI: Well, it wasn't much of a choice, (laughter from interviewer) either that or get drafted. I finished high school. I was eighteen in December of '42 and I went into the Navy in February of '43. Wilkins: Why did you decide to join the Navy specifically? ZENI: Because my brother was in it. And then to give you a side story on it, John Payne made a lot of movies about the Marine Corps. And in the movies, they always showed you Marines getting run over by tanks. And that was one of the primary reasons I joined the Navy, because I wanted a clean bed to sleep in and I think the Navy offered you that. And also, I tried to join the V- 12, or V-5, I think it was, the V-5 Aviation, the Program, and they had closed it that summer. And another item that you may be interested in, the last guy to get in on that V-5 MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni Program was not this present Bush, President Bush, but his father, and he is two months older than I, is the reason. Wilkins: Wow. ZENI: So, then, so they told me to join the Navy and apply for V-5 while I was in the Navy. Wilkins: Did you make it? ZENI: No, I didn't want it after a while, and I'll explain that. Wilkins: Oh. okay, so you joined the Navy, and you went to Basic Training, I'm guessing. ZENI: I went to Basic Training at Sampson Naval Training Station in upstate New York, and that was a horrible experience for a simple reason: I went to 90 Church Street and enlisted, and we sat around and they were kicking around San Diego and all different bases. And me, as a kid who never left Brooklyn in my life, it seemed to be far off, as I would never get home. But we got to Sampson Training Station maybe about 4:00 in the morning, and we would have no shades pulled down as we traveled. And we got there, and we had no food, and we finally ate. And the first meal, the navy meal, I still recall it. It was horrible to me. It was fried codfish. And when I was packing my bag, I put my watch in it, and my watch broke. So it was a horrible day, (laughs) but it wasn't after that. Wilkins: So it got better? The training got better? ZENI: Yeah, I enjoyed it. MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni Wilkins: How long was Basic Training? ZENI: Six weeks. Wilkins: Six weeks? ZENI: Yeah, I got that right here, six to eight weeks, I'll tell you in a minute. (Noise of shuffling papers in the background.) Alright, I went to Basic, I got to Sampson on March 13, 1943, and I was in Sampson Naval Training Station. It was near Geneva, New York. Okay, I was there through May 13, 1943, then we went to Boot Leave. 1'11 tell you how long I was there. And we came back after thirteen days and went to shipping out station, right there on Sampson, and while I was there, trying to pick schools I wanted. I wanted the submarine, but I was tone deaf, so next choice was aviation. So I went to Naval Aviation Training Center in Memphis, Tennessee on June 1, 1943 to take courses in Aviation Radioman. I have the course picture of it, and the station (??). Wilkins: Oh, excellent! ZENI: I jumped out of Boot Camp, now what else ya' need (laughter)? Wilkins: So what exactly, like, you said that you were an aviation radioman? ZENI: That's what I went to school for. Wilkins: That's what you went to school for. Is that what you ended up doing? ZENI: That's what I ended up doing. Wilkins: What, like, describe the job for me. What did you do? MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni ZENI: Well, I was both and Aviation Radioman and an Aerial Gunner. Wilkins: Oh, (laughter). ZENI: Funny part with the (??) was in town like 30-40 seconds. That's what they said. I had joined wanting to fly. So the job entailed Morse code sending and receiving, Semaphore sending and receiving-and I can tell you an incident or too-and strictly basic electronic theory is what we would call electronic, but they called electricity then. Wilkins: Oh, okay. ZENI: And we have take off. And one test I failed, the rest of the people in the class helped me out, and I graduated of course. The only alternative, if you failed the course, you went to PT Boats in New Orleans, and I didn't want to go to no PT Boats. Even though John Kennedy was on a PT Boat, but I wanted no part of that. So, after we finished the radio school, we went to about two weeks of radar training, operational, how to operate the gear and stuff like that, and it was all the fundamentals. And then, from there we went to a Naval Air Training Station called Yellow Water, Florida. It was outside of Jacksonville, Florida. And there we took Arid Gunner phase. That was your training for your rating to be an Aerial Gunner, I had to go there. When I was there I met Robert Stack, movie star. He was an instructor, gunnery instructor. So we were doing skeet shooting-the first time we did trap shooting, which is different than skeet shooting, where you're over the target and the ducks-I call them ducks, came out. So when I got done, I got twenty out of twenty-two. So he says to me, "are you a country boy?" I says, "no, a city boy from Brooklyn," (interviewer laughter). He says, "how come you know, you did so well, even that and the skeet (??)?,, MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni I says, "very fundamental, in football, you're a quarterback. You throw the football, you lead the throw for the receiver. So I led the throw, and that's the way." And I made plenty of money at skeet shooting later on in my Navy career. Wilkins: Well, that's good (laughter). ZEM: Competing against other squadrons and what not. Wilkins: Right, wow. So does that take you through- ZENI: Wait, I'm not finished. Then we went to Naval Air Station, Lake City, Florida. There you-while you were in gunnery school, they assign you to the type of aircraft you're gonna fly in. So, I was selected to the PVs, which was the Ventura-PV- 1 s, the early versions of the Neptune later on, which I was associated with in the Reserves. And you had still two weeks-I think we had two weeks in Lake City, and three-four weeks in Buford, South Carolina Another interesting thing, if you want to know about, what happened on Christmas of '43. We took off, and I had to go on the flight, but there was no radio gear on the plane. So, I says, "why am I going on this flight?" "Oh come on along anyway, we got an instructor that we're taken orientation." So we got over what was supposed to be Jacksonville, Florida, and we went down and nothin' but fog. So he turns over to me "it looks like you have to take our bird." I says, "I told you earlier before we took off, no radio gear." But I did have a direction finder. This'll always stick in my mind. I locked in on a station in Tennessee, and I flew a beam, and then we saw a spot, a break in the fog, so we went down, and it was nothing but swamp from the Okefenokee. So we came out over the swamps and then we went to follow the tracks away across Georgia. And there, low and behold, is an Army Air Force base. It had P- 39s on it. And so we rang up permission to land. We got the permission, but we couldn't get the wheels down. And, ah the hydraulics weren't working. And I tried to do it manually, and I couldn't. I was only a small, skinny kid about MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni 5'3/2', 1 12 lbs soaking wet. And we went in wheels up and the pilots comment was "of all places to screw up, I gotta screw up on a Army Air Force Base." They were out looking for us though. It was Christmas Day. So then we got done with that phase of it and we went to Buford, South Carolina, where we worked with the aircraft. And, I caught pneumonia there, but it wasn't too bad. But, it was hot in the morning, and cold in the night, great change in temperature. Nothing of-yes, I was going to say that nothing happened, but yes, something did happen. What we did was, while I was there, I received my aircrew wings. But, uh, when we were assigned stations, they picked us class. Everybody from A-L went to Afiica, Port Lioli. And L-Y went to the Pacific. So there I am sitting there, I said ''what happens to the Zs?' They said, "you're going to Floyd Bennett Field, New York." Imagine that, Floyd Bennett Field, New York. I says "Great!" I took a train, went up to Fort Bennett. I got there, and I was this young, stupid kid and what happened with the war. So I was looking out at the hangar and the Electronics Officer comes over to me and says "where do you live I see Brooklyn, New York here." "Well, come on." We walk to the corner of the hangar and I pointed to him and I said, "you see that pier sticking out on Jamaica Bay7'-you could see it from the base. I says, "I live two miles down the road that way." Next thing I new I was on a plane for Quonset Point, Rhode Island. He says "you'll be thinking more of liberty than working." So they sent me to there, that wasn't far enough. The took me up to New Brunswick, Maine, to the Naval Air Station. They didn't have a place for, so they sent me down to Naval Air Station, Squantom, Massachusetts. But they stuck me in a maintenance outfit and I was mad, because that took away my flight pay and what have you. So what happened was, I said "I want a transfer." Personnel Officer says, "you're not even rated, so what are you making all this noise about?" says "give me the test." I took the test. I passed it. So I was an Aviation Radioman Third Class, at that point. MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni Then I got on the baseball team. And that was a great time. I was playing other military bases. It was a great time, I forgot all about the transfer. And what happened was-this was in February or March, June-my Chief Petty Officer that was in charge of the Radiomen said "you're transfer came through." I says, "what do you mean, my transfer." He said, "you put one in." He had come back fiom the Pacific, and he took a line that I was too young to go out there. He says, "I don't want you goin' there. I got three places they want you." One was Port Lioli, and I was corresponding with my friends that went to Port Lioli. The lived in tents and I wanted no parts of that. So he said the second one was USS Nevada. I woulda liked that, but he says, "you're not going there." And I researched that later, and I was wondering who took my place. And I found out, they were at the D-Day at Normandy. But they didn't use the Radiomen. And there's a phase I can show you in the book where they took these pilots, trained them in SpitEiu-es. And that's what they flew over-that's something that's not well known-they flew over Normandy in these Spitfires. "And the third place is down in Key West, they need a baseball player, and that's where you're going.'' I went fiom Hedron-9 with the Headquarter's Squadron to Hedron- 12 in Key West, Florida. I sure wasn't content, but he said there may be a chance I could go back to flying status. And it came true, because I was there a month and I was transferred to VS-62, which is Gunnery Squadron, back on flying status, as an Aviation Radioman. And my personnel officer at the Hedron- 12 was Walter P. Chrysler, Jr. and he got thrown out of the Navy. Wilkins: Really? ZENI: Yeah, he was gay, so they got rid of him. So I had a great time. And what we're doing, I'll have to go through the book and show you. I got a list of all the people who was in the Squadron. Okay. I got the history of it, if you want to look at it. And there it tells exactly--all the jobs we'd do. Well we, primarily we were running shipping lanes. And what we'd do is we'd challenge a ship and MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni they'd have to hoist an identification flag with the code of the day. The flag reading was essential to learn in Memphis, I forgot to tell you that. And, uh, so we had a great time. We operated out of Key West. And we picked up a lot of the young boys going to Europe. And we had bases, outlying bases in Pinar del Rio, where I told you in Guantanamo. And then we had another base in the Caibraien, which I have pictures of here. It was an area off Cuba (papers being shuffled). We lived off this-see this boat off here, with the planes anchored it it. There's another shot of it with the planes anchored. And what we do is pick up anti-submarine patrol and convoy(??). And we had a base called-oh, I can't think of the name of it right now-it was halfway between Caibraien, or Cayo Francis where we were. And can't think of the name of it, but it was between there and Guantanamo. And they had a houseboat there. At which you would fly in, moor your plane, and then you'd stay over night and then flew back. Wilkins: Oh, okay. ZENI: And there is a side bit with that. I went to town that day, to eat. The cook that was on the houseboat asked me "were'd you go?'And I told him. And I had accidentally wandered into a leper's colony (laughter). The next month I was sittin' there shakin', I didn't know if I'd contacted it. Course, I'll never forget the name of the restaurant or bar: it was El Gato Negro, or "the Black Cat." That was a good experience. The whole thing was a good experience. And another experience I had down there was when Ensign Reeves-Eaves not Reeves. When we got back to Key West, fiom that flight, the Skipper was up there meeting me. He says to me, he says, "how many groups did you have in that message you sent?" We were screening a group of convoy ships to make a turn. I told him the amount. I said "I got one better, I got the not that Lieutenant Eaves wrote out in my pocket," and I gave it to him. And he counted them. I didn't know anything about it, but what he told me. And they said they got one less group that should have been in the message. It wasn't correct. And it was Eaves' screw up. MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni And so he says, "okay, you can go, fine. It wasn't your fault." And it would look like they wouldn't blame me that I didn't transmit it. So-this was Morse code-so, I went down to the stairways and Eaves says to me, he says "we almost got in trouble." And I said "no, you almost got in trouble" (laughter). But he was a good guy. So another episode in my life when I was in Key West was, when I made Second Class, my buddy . . . Chapman-I couldn't think of his name for a minute. He says "lets go to shore." And I says, "what for?' "Cause we made Second Class, have a good time." I said "I don't have the liberty." "Ahh, I have four liberty cards for each section." I said okay. We went, we ate and we came back. The marine at the gate says "lets see your pass," so I hand him one of the passes, the correct one for that day. He says, "we don't want your pass, we want your ID card." Someone said there were too many sailors in town that night. I left my ID card. So, the next morning the Skippers calls u p t h e Skipper of the Base-we weren't attached to the base, but he wants punishment. So he says to me, "I hope you liked it, because I'm given' you thirty days, that you can't leave the base." It's the lowest form of4aptain's mad. And he gave me thirty days I couldn't leave the base, no liberty. And I said alright. Then he turns around to Chapman and I he says to me, "how would you like-the Coast Guard is having a problem up in Dinner ICey.' How would you like to go up there and help them out?" You know, they were doing the same patrol duties we were doing. I says, "great." I says, "I'm restricted to the base here, I might as well go up there and be something different anyway." So Dinner Key was a nice place. It had-what I loved-it had the old type flying boats that belonged to Pan Am. They were still there like in a museum. When I got there, guess-low and behold, Ensign Eaves was the guy in charge. Dinner Key is now known as Coral Gables, Florida, per Mr. Zeni. MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni He says, "I hear you got in trouble, you're in trouble in Key West." I says, "yeah," and I told him about being restricted. "I don't know anything about it" It happens that part of it was that they were filming the picture-I don't know if you saw it-They Were Expendable with John Wayne, Robert Montgomery. It was the story of the PT Boats. John Wayne, all those old characters you've seen in the John Wayne movies. And besides flying the patrols, we went out towards t h m h , what's the name-the islands right over by Miami, I can't think of the P. name right now.' You can probably look on a map and see what I'm talking about. And at nighttime, or during the day when we weren't flying, we had to fly. If you look at the picture, you'll see those OS2U Kingfishers, spy planes. They were our planes with meatballs.' And we were the dive-bombers, bombing the OS2Us, I mean the PT Boats. I got that film (laughs) on DVD. Its on DVD. Okay, I almost screwed up again that night-one night I went to shore, to Miami and I had a curfew-I don't know if you have to put all this in there or not, but its just interesting reading- Wilkins: Oh yeah, its all interesting. ZENI: So, I had a curfew, and you had to be back on the base at 12:00, and I was in Miami. So I got done and this Air Force Officer and his wife said "you're in trouble, there's a curfew." And I didn't know anything about it. So he says-- there was an old store and had a coat on-and they staid in front of it, and he says, "now you stay behind me 'ti1 the bus come." So they hid me till the bus comes. So, it was a good deal. But I helped somebody out, later on, when I was in the Reserves in Rosy ~oads" where I did the same thing for a-when I was a Chief Petty Officer, I did the same thing for the Guadalcanal Carrier was in base, and Mr. Zeni later stated the islands referenced here were the Bahamas. ' Meatballs were a large red circle covering the star normally on the tail of the planes, w Mr. Zeni. Nickname for NAS Roosevelt Roads, per Mr. Zeni. MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni one guy was drunk, but they had to be on deck, so I pulled him into my room for the rest of-for all night. And so, I paid it back. Okay, so, Chapman heard about it, and he wanted to come, and Skipper says, "we asked you and you didn't want to go." So I had a great time. It was thirty days I was up there, and I had all the liberty no problem. Wilkins: (Laughter) just completely made up for the- ZENI: Now he was doin' me a favor, the Skipper. So we stayed there till-I got it in here (flipping pages in book) until the end of the war. This is the pictures of the surrender of Germany, and that's me. This guy's gone, this guy's gone, this guy's gone. They're all gone. And (more flipping) I got to tell you about baseball. .what was I saying, I lost my train of thought, play that back a little bit. Wilkins: Um, okay (tape stops and restarts) okay. ZENI: Okay, that Dinner experience proved help for me later on in another way. I was flying on a patrol-We had an Ensign Curley, who was supposed to be the son of the Mayor Curley who died right after the war. He crashed in Squantom, Mass, believe it or not. And he died with the crash, in the reserves he was. What had happened was, I was flying with him and we were taking, doing the normal routine, reading the flags. And he says, "Zeni," everybody called me Zeni there. He says, "Zeni," he says "you know something, I don't know where we are, I don't know where to put it on the chart." He was a screw-up since the day he got in. The first day he landed at Key West, he bounced the seaplane, and the Skipper of the base wanted to know who it was. He was an oddball. Three people came in; they were oddballs. And don't understand why they came to our squadron. But, so it happened that it was in that area we flying patrols for the Coast Guard, and I told you those islands off of Miami. I says, "you're going the wrong way." I says "your going towards"-there's a big gambling thing that they got up there, I can't think of the name of it. MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni Everybody goes there to vacation. Well, you look it up on a map and you'll see. I tell him "you're going there." I says, "I'll prove it to you." So I got the direction finder, did a triangulation and showed him he was wrong. So we flew the beam back to Miami and down to Key West. But he was a good guy, he told the Skipper about it. So, I mean, I got complimented on it. But he was a screwball (interviewer laughter). The other guy, Lovenkites, who came with him when they were flying off Cuba, and there're big thunderheads, and I says "you're not going through there are you?" He says, "yeah." We got blown off course, and I had to send a message. In the messagehe says, "tell 'em we got some. .eh. .engine problems," for why we're off course, its all because he screwed up. So then I says, "well, they'll wanna know what kind of engine problems we got." So then he says to me, "don't tell 'em anything. Like you never heard it." I said, "yes, but wait 'ti1 we send in the landing report, then they're gonna ask you again." Sure enough. So those two guys, I don't know where they came from, but they were screwballs (laughter). So that's it, now let me think. Okay, so we finally, the war ended-in Europe, not in the Pacific. And we got-the squadron was disbanded. Planes went to the Graveyard in Clinton, Oklahoma, and we went up to Norfolk, Virginia. And from there I went to Pier 92--no leave (laughter) we went there for reassignment. The funny thing out of it-this is strictly-there is the "brown shoe Navy"- an expression-is air corps. "Black shoe Navy" is the regular ship bourn Navy. So I went to a black shoe outfit, out there on Pier 92. And they had nothing for me to do, related to aviation. So they put me on prisoner duty. That's horrible. Here I am looking out at-I can't go home--I lived in Brooklyn-I couldn't see it, but I knew where it was. So we finally got the orders to go back to the Naval Air Training Center in Memphis, reschooling. Everybody, even people from the Pacific, they all converged on-that was just before the war ended in July of '45. Funny part, on MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni the way back, another incident happened. We were driving, the Chief I was with-I was Second Class, and he was Chief-he pulled some strings, and he got us able to use the car and drive down. So the day we left, was the day the B-25 crashed into the Empire State Building. Wilkins: Oh, wow. ZEN1 Yeah, I don't know if you remember that, a B-25 crashed into the Empire State Building. So, we had a good time, we went and drove down. And another incident, what happened was, we got to the base-we got our orders sealed, they were in an envelope sealed with wax. He opened up the wax. He said, "did you guys open these orders?" I says , "no, why would I open them?' He says, "you know why, you got no time of arrival. You coulda swung home and stayed the war out." (interviewer laughter). He was wondering how we got orders like that, so he called New York to verify-Pier 92, and they said okay. So I stayed there until the war ended August-it was August 8 when the dropped the bomb at Hiroshima And we - (??) happy about it, maybe the possibility that the war was over. So finally the war was over. So they asked everybody-we were going to school-but they asked pick your base, which you wanted to go to. So my kid brother was in the Naval Air Station in Corpus Christi. So I picked Naval Air Station, Corpus Christi. This you don't have to print, but I'm just telling you just for laughs, we got there and we had a lot of people came in from the Pacific, and they didn't want to-they gave a hard time to the instructors who were in Memphis, because they didn't go nowhere, they spent the whole war there, and they were giving them all a hard time, these guys that came in from the Pacific. So we got there, they took over the bus, and we got to Corpus Christi. But meanwhile, we went to a Corpus resort to see what it was like. We got there, and the sent us out to a barge way out on the bay, and we had the lights on and the MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni shore patrol-not the shore patrol, the boat's inspecor (??) lights on, wouldn't put them lights on. And the Duty Officer says, "leave 'em alone, we'll take care of them tomorrow." So we're having a good time there. And I didn't know what was happening, these guys were a little more older than I was, and they're trying to shoot a Navy(??) -I forgot to tell you, when I was in the Squantom, bad field experience. We shared the base at Squantom, the Naval Air Station. I was on the baseball team, and I caught a bad a taste about China-they called them China sailors, before the war. They were horrible people. They were drunks. This guy come over, and they assigned me a locker+clears throat) you may have to tape this over, with my voice-and they assigned me a locker, and that's supposed to be mine (??). And he says to me "you ain't got that locker, you got another locker." I says "why?" He says, "that was my locker." He says, "'cause that's my liquor locker." But he got his-what happened--one day he was-he got the FOU. They got TBMs on the squadron base. And SBDs. Wilkins: What were those? ZENI: Those were. .uh Torpedo Bombers, SBDs were Scouting Bombers, and we shared the base with the British Navy. I got papers you can read about, and, ah the British Navy. They were powedul aircraft carriers. Ooohh, talking about that, that's the greatest experience there, but let me tell you about this guy. He made the plane go down nose-first, slipped and crashed onto the hanger floor. And he wasn't on the base anymore. But, uh, that's when I was a kid, and the greatest experience to me. A carrier came into the harbor, and they flew the planes. They landed a squadron. And to me, that was great. The precision they brought the planes in, and that was the first experience I saw. And to me that was the greatest experience of the day. I was in awe watching these people. I thought, I gotta be part of that, you know. It really was, felt great, and that's it. Now how'd I get on that subject? MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni Wilkins: You mentioned aircraft carriers, because you were taking about the China navymen. ZENI: Oh, sorry yeah. All right, now we'll go to how I came into the squadron. So I went down to Corpus Christ to see my kid brother. That's were I met my wife and we got married. Wilkins: Oh, okay. ZENI: Yeah. And a funny thing about my kid brother, I hadn't seen him for two years, and he was in the fire department on the naval air station. So I walk in to em', a guy, I says, "my kid brother's name is Lino," Lee they called him. They took me up to where the bunkroom was, and I walked up, ''that's not my brother!" I couldn't recognize him. (Laughter). Okay, we stayed there, and-oh getting back to the story, now I know where I lost my train of thought. Okay, we couldn't turn the lights out. I said, "we'll take care of 'em later on." Okay, now next morning we assembled in the movie hall, everybody that was aboard that- He says, the skipper of the base, I forgot what we called him(??), "by tonight, none of you people are gonna be on this base. I don't want you." And of course, it was a hard time. And again, luck always falls in a line with me that everyone was shippin' all over the country, and I fell-I went to Rodd Field, which was down the road, naval air station. And, I was the only guy that stayed in Texas, believe it or not. The rest of em' were shipped to the four comers of the world. They went to the Pacific, and all other sifter(??). And draft that was on in the personnel, they filled 'em with them. That's another one, but I stayed there 'ti1 I got discharged. Okay, I got my orders and I got discharged. Wilkins: Um, do mind if I ask you a couple questions about what it was like in um- MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni ZENI: No Wilkins: But we're gonna go back. When you were in Key West, and in Cuba, um, what was it like? Like what was the climate like? Was it- ZENI: Nice, hot. Wilkins: Nice and hot? ZENI: Nice, no it was nice, but very humid though. Wilkins: Right. ZENI: Cuba was a nice place. I enjoyed my time I spent in Cuba. Wilkiis: Did you have any-were there any major storms, like were there any hurricanes? ZENI: Yes, I'm glad you brought that up. In 1944, that's another incident. A pilot on the base, his name was Collins. He was from Brooklyn. He says, called me over, "Zeni," he says. "We going to Floyd Bennett Field, you and I." Wilkins: Great. ZEN: I ran over, got my gear, throw it in the back of the aircraft. The Chief comes over and asks me, he says, "what are you doing?' I said, "I'm going with Ensign Collins." He said, "no you're not." He says, "the Skipper has other plans for you I was up in Skipper's office," he says. "You're going to take a flight of leave-going on a leave plane with flights going to Banana River." Aaaooooh. Which is, you know where Banana River is? MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni Wilkins: No. ZENI: Where they shoot the shells off- Wilkins: Oh. ZENI: Cape Kennedy, that's down there near Banana River. So, I said, "okay." So Collins said, "what are you gonna do with your gear?' I says, "take it, I ain't gonna need it." 'Cause I wore my blues, you know what I mean, the whole dress uniform. I ain't gonna be going anyplace. So we got in the plane, and we're over Miami, and the winds blowin' and howlin'. They say the hurricanes coming. And, what happened was, I look around and see that number twelve. I said "that was Mike Crawford!" He doesn't know where he was. So I flew with three Marine pilots, I think they were. But they were PV pilots. They weren't versed in OSS.' That's why they wanted me to go. So we got there, and that was an experience, I tell ya'. I hurt me a (??). So, he joined up with us and we landed at Banana River. So they had no mooring, so that we get people coming up on the apron. So we had to moor out at the buoys in the bay. So, what happened was, I was out to go down on a float, I had to grab the buoy. And what happened was, I heard this splash. I says, "What'd you do?' He dropped the depth charge. And, I'm sitting there like that holding my head. And I said, "well, I've got it." But it was set for, I think it was set to go off at a deeper depth than we were, and that's what saved us from being blown up. Wilkins: Yeah, (laughter.) ZENI: I'll never forget that. And so, out of nowhere, my active ended. I stayed in Corpus until I got discharged. And my active duty was great. I had no problem. I played baseball. I played with a lot of big-leaguers. And, I wanted to be a big- - - ' OS2Us, per Mr. Zeni. MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni leaguer, but I was too small, as it ended up. When I was in high school, and I was playing baseball for Boy's High in Brooklyn. And Coach Harry Kane, who coached Lou Gehrig, he had the scouts from St. Louis Cardinals come in. And the guy said, "he's a good ballplayer," he said. "But you're too small." That's when they introduced short stops that were six feet, like they are today. And Maw Marion was the guy they brought on because he was six foot. That was institutional. So, I says to him, "what about Phil Rizzutto? He was small." And the answer he gave me was, "politics." That's why I never became a big league ballplayer. Wilkins: Oh, man. ZENI: But later on, they kept they guys at five feet six. So, while I was sitting at home, I was working. I had a horrible job. It was horrible in '45, there weren't that many jobs around. No, '46, not '45. Eisenhower was in, no Truman was in. There was no jobs. I had to take a job, a horrible job, making ceramics, so it was horrible. So, I gotta get some extra income, so I joined the Naval Air Reserve. And, my wife didn't want me to go active. I like flying, going back into that. So, I worked with some VS outfits, we were flying torpedo bombers. And it was great. Some places I was two weeks, I used to go flying to different parts of the country. Then I went to work for a place, I got pictures of. I was in the early Space Program. Wilkins: Oh, okay. ZENI: The Discovery Missile, the Vanguard missiles, which was a very disaster the Navy was involved with. Boy I remember the picture taken. I worked on the gyroscopes, and the platforms, that would run it. I tested all the gyroscopes, and MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni it was good experience. But what it entailed, I had to go on field trips. And, I had to drop out of the Reserves. So, I dropped out, I didn't do much until I got- But then, when it quieted down I went back into the Reserves. So I was First Class, I made First Class in there, the Reserves. They didn't want to give me it, because I was out to long. So there was a program they had at that time, the Navy, where-it was a double-edged sword. It was, if you could take the courses and pass the test, I would get Chief Petty Officer, E-7. Okay, but they gave me-of course, with my experience working with the Space Program and missiles, they gave me a different rating: AQ. It was Guided Missile Man. And, I detested that! I did that for about four years and I hated every minute of it. There was no flying, and the people in there I didn't like. So finally, one day I'm walking across a hangar and I get stopped by this Captain Law. And he says to me, "what's that stupid thing you're wearing on your shirt sleeve?" The rating. I tell him, "AQ." He says, "what are doing there'?" Well, I explained the story to him. He said, "we ain't gonna stand for that." He was a Captain. He took me over to the VP squadron, introduced me to the Skipper. The reason he got to know me, was I flew with him, the early part of '40s6-when I first went into the VS squadron of Floyd Bennett Field. And I flew with him a lot. So he took me to the Ensign, it was Captain-uh, Commander Brass, and he says, "get him to flying status. He's a radioman. He does more good as a radioman than what he's doing." 'Cause they really had nothing there on Floyd Bennett to do with that. Wilkin: Right. ZENI: Sure enough, he wrote a letter. And, I was Chief then, AQ. And I passed the test (sound of something hitting table and mike wobbling). I took the gamble and won. I coulda Seaman over again (laughter). So, they changed my rate to Avian Mr. Zeni latere corrected this to the '50s. MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni Submarine Warfare Technician. What I did, I went with P2Vs and the patrol squadron and I was Radioman and Jezebel operator. And so, I had a good time, I flew all over. I had two experiences in there that I'll never forget. Once we were flying off New Brunswick, Maine, and all of a sudden, on the God frequency-I don't know if you know what that is. Wilkins: No, I don't. ZENI: It blasts like it was somebody sitting next to you. It says, "get out of the area!" It was the battleships having gunnery practice. We had wondered into that (laughter). The other time was when we were off of Iceland, and we lost an engine. Wilkins: Oh, no. ZENI: And, I was scared. I thought we were gonna have to bail out, but we got back to the base. And the other time, we over flew the Azores, and Rota, Spain, and Naples, and Sigonella, Sicily-that's where all the cases were. And we were playing games-at that point, the Cold War was at its height, and these Russian Trawlers, fishing trawlers, really had radar gear. And we played cat and mouse trying to catch them, (coughs) before they covered- (tape ends, turn to other side). Wilkins: This is the continuation of the interview with Mr. Richard Zeni on October 22, 2005 in the library of San Marcos, Texas. And once again, my name is Reagan Wilkins, and I am the interviewer. (Mr. Zeni coughs) were talking about trawlers. ZENI: Yeah, that's ah, Russian trawlers. And we caught a lot of them, you know, before they-and we took pictures. But, the biggest ah thrill I got, was when we were in Rota, Spain. We took off, and they had a decoy and the regular sub on through Gibraltar out into the Atlantic, or going into the Mediterranean. So there MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni was a report of stuff in there. And, it was strange because, I couldn't understand this was, because, I used to go in and get my coded message. But you could-the Russian submarine could sit out there and listen and hear that you were gonna-then they knew that you were gonna take off looking for them. So we finally went off the Canary Islands, the submarines were lucky, they saw them. It was lots of fun. I got to see Rome. I got to see a lot of good places where I wanted to see. Wilkins: What did you do when you caught the Russian trawlers? ZENI: Well, we just sent a message, or a position report. Wilkins: Oh, okay. ZENI: Not a big deal, because I don't know what happened after that. I'm glad you mentioned that because the biggest scare I got in my life. Its right across the bay from Cadeza, Spain. That's were Columbus came to the United States-America, not the United States. So what happened was, I'm in this ferry boat and there was an American Submarine base right there. And, that's where the submarines were playing cat ant mouse with the Russian subs. And when this sub, nuclear sub came up out of the water, I didn't know what was coming up out of the water. Scared the dickens out of me (laughter). We lost a lot of, no not a lot, a few subs over in that area too. They never knew what happened to them, probably playing cat and mouse game and got caught. Wilkins: Yep. ZENI: So another thing is, we went to Naples, we landed there. And what happens is we landed, see this mark up here? Wilkins: Mh-hm. MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni ZENI: Okay, we landed. We had a tricycle, three gears, and the gear in the fiont, it broke it, and the Skipper says, "you can't buy that kind of experience." I said, "who needs to?'(laughter). But that's that. So the people were a little afiaid because he couldn't maneuver that. You know, that's hard. That same thing happened to me in Cuba, one time, but the tail wheel wouldn't lock. And we took off fiom Havana and there's nothing but apartment buildings around the airfield. And that scared the dickens out of me then too. I always remembered that. So, we had to go back, to Rota. The pilot says, "can't you talk these guys into it?" You know, there weren't going. So, I says, "I'm going back." I said, "If I didn't think I was safe, I wouldn't be on it." I got 'em all back on, but I was a little leery about it too, because something could have happened with the landing gear. 'Cause they fixed it, but they didn't do a permanent job. Okay, that brings me back to permanent job. Okay, that reminds me of another incident. When I was in the Reserves until the end, I retired fiom the reserves but went to the Ready Reserves. Trying to think of-I got it in here somewhere. I volunteered for this Southwest Pacific, WESTPAC (sounds of large notebook being opened and pages being flipped). And we were supposed to fly supplies to Vietnam, so I volunteered for it. I thought it would be a good deal, get to go see Japan. And so, we took OR We took off fiom Floyd Bennett to Oakland to Hawaii. Hawaii to Wake, and then to Guam. But on the way to Wake to Guam, when we landed at Guam, we couldn't unfeather the prop. So, I said it was electrical problem, not mechanical, but they wouldn't believe me. I had a horrible pilot. He thought he knew everything. So, we were sitting there. I had no duties, so I didn't care. They were working. They'd pull an engine change and check and all that stuff, and the still couldn't get it. All they got themselves was dirty. So, we had got us another P2, from the regular Navy. And I talked to the guy in there, an electrician was on board. He says, "yeah, you're right." So what I did MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni was, I got a switch. It wasn't an exact switch, fiom the maintenance department and I saudered it in, and it worked. But we flew with that switch. And I don't know how long it stayed there, but I reported it. It was, ah, told it to Skipper. But we flew into there, Guam and to-oh what's the name of that place? A beautiful place in Philippines, right outside there. They closed it down now, they had that volcano. .(sounds as Mr. Zeni searches through his book). Oh well, I'll email you this stuff, but I don't remember.7 There, we were behind schedule. So, we were supposed to go to Nang. We were carrying some important pieces of paper or whatever it was, materials. And when we landed in Hawaii, in the whole place, we had to park waaayyy off the field so I don't know what it was. To this day, I have no idea what it is. So we unloaded, but that's what I said, it was in the airspace around there. When we were in Oahu(??), trying to see anyone brought back from Vietnam. We took people from, I'm trying to think of the name of that base. I can't think of it, I'll think of later. I got pictures. Ah, well, we took them up to Atsugi, Japan. And, that was a nice place, I enjoyed that. I got to spend three days in Tokyo, it was real nice. And Yokahama. What scared me is it's trains were so crowded and packed, its high speed trains. Wilkins: Oh, yeah. ZENI: And I'm looking over-short as I am, I was looking over the shoulder of everybody. I could see these Japanese kids looking at me, who's that white man? You know, different colored skin. But we had a good time. So we flew back to Midway, which was an experience I enjoyed. But what had happened was, I couldn't sleep. I can never sleep on an airplane, even today when I go on a flight, 'cause I don't know what's happening. I took over all the radio watch, all the way to Midway to back to Oahu. When I got to Oahu, the only thing I saw was the Punch Bowl. That's where all big (??) are buried. So this guy says, "we'll go out tonight, you coming?" Mr. Zeni later named the island as Subic Bay MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni I says, "yeah, let me take some snooze, shut eye, I didn't sleep." They tried to wake me up. They couldn't wake me. I woke up, I went out to Camp Perry. I went to the nightclub and I had something to eat. But, they took off, and I paid for the car, my part of it. But it was fun. Then we went back home. I had a lot of good times in the Reserves, because I just got to see-its not like the shipboard, that they just want to cruise, and have you out to sea and back. Maybe, they got to go to port of call, maybe. But, I got to see a lot of places around the world. So I enjoyed it. But my wife gave me a hard time. She goes-it was a weekend-she says, "everybody's out barbecuing and you're out-" But I felt good about it because I felt that I was doing something that-you know it was early in the morning, I had to drive sixty miles from Long Island, where I lived, to Floyd Bennett. But I thought it was worth it. And I was sitting up in that cold airplane and we were looking Russian trawlers. I thought that was contributing. The funny part about the Reserves, my brothers were in there. They'd both gone in there. My older brother got called up during the Korean War. I was in there too. I was the only one in the Active Reserve. They weren't in the active, but they were in the inactive. They told my kid brother, wait until he was called. They never called him. My brother they called, but he got out because he a back problem. So, but I mean, they were inactive and they got called (laughter). But the people they had called, the found out-I shouldn't say this, about how horrible the Reserve Program was-they weren't actually ready. And most of 'em got-when we had the Cuban crisis, they went to outlying bases near there and all they did was go regular. They had the opportunity to go regular. But my wife didn't want any part of that. But I'm glad I did it, you know why? Because I got all the benefits today. I wouldn't have nothing. I wouldn't have pension, no medical, nothing. So I enjoyed it. So that's it, I got pictures here, I want you to look through these things and see what you want. Wilkins: Okay, but- MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni ZENI: Ah, more questions. Wilkins: Yeah, lets see. Um, you've answered a lot of them just through talking, (laughs) so that's really good. Um, so when did you finally retire? ZENI: Well, you don't retire until your 60 years old, so that would be 20-40-60, it '84. What you did is went to the Ready Reserves . . . (Mr. Zeni spends a few minutes looking for retirement paperwork in his book) . . . oh here's pictures from when I was on TV. Wilkins: Oh. ZENI: Here's the story (loud movement as microphone is hit, continues flipping through book). Wilkins: What were you on television for? ZENI: Read it, right there, this is where I got my rating in AQ, Guided Missile Man. Wilkins: Oh, okay, so that was the NASA Missile, working for the Space Program. ZENI: Yeah, that's what I was telling you. That shows you all things in there. I told you about the Gyro program. There's a table testing them, a couple degrees instrument, discovery missile, that's the whole thing. I played softball there to . . . (continues to look for retirement paperwork periodically pointing out pictures) . . . here it is, this is when I retired, see. Oh, I forgot to mention this, (long pause), Naval Reserve Retired List, see that's where I got transferred to. That was in, ah, '69, I think it was. That's what you want. W: Oh, okay, this is a Retired List? MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni ZENI: Yeah, here's where I retired the first time, well I call it the first time (laughs). But this is explaining about the Floyd Bennet Field. They wanted me to come up and take my picture. I didn't want to go. I didn't feel right, but I could have been in that picture. Here it goes on and tells you I was an ASW Technician. Now when I was a kid, I used to go to Floyd Bennett. That's one thing, how I got introduced to Naval Air. I should have had that on there. W: Oh, okay. ZENI: At that time, they had the longest runway in the world. When I was out there, seeing and reading is gonna take a lot of time. Here's what I was wanted to tell. This is what I got for that flight to Japan. Wilkins: (Reading) the Rear Admiral uh- ZENI: The Richard Fowler Award. Wilkins: Richard Fowler Award. Oh, okay. You got that for- ZENI: Read it, WESTPAC. Wilkins: (Reading) Whereas, while serving as a member of the Navy-Marine air Reserve Team, and maintaining your readiness to serve your country upon instant call, and whereas you volunteered as a Transport Flight crew member in support of the United States Naval Air Reserve's WESTPAC operations to South Viet Nam, and whereas the record of your volunteer service to the Unites States is in the highest tradition of the United States Navy and the Naval Air Reserve (ends reading). Oh, okay, so then you got this for your South Vietnam. ZENI: Yeah. MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni Wilkins: But you didn't, they didn't give you the Vietnam Service Medal. ZENI: No, I never got it. That's what I'm trying to do. Wilkins: Oh, okay, I see, that's neat. ZENI: I want to find out how to do it though. I don't want to go through Congressman, because you know what happens with that, they won't get their picture in the paper. Wilkins: Yeah, that's what it takes. Um, so going back to- ZENI: You said, where I went. That's the Reserve, and I got (more flipping through the book) and I got the Ready Reserve at that point time. In fact, I got all, I didn't bring it with me, but I still haven the in case of - (??) what squadrons you want (microphone hit). They gave you the, you know, you got a piece of paper: in case of war breaks out this- Wilkins: Oh, okay, you'll go to here. ZENI: This is your assignment. That was strange. This is transfer to the Retired Reserves. That was '69. See, I went to Retired Reserves. And I retired in '84 . . . (looks through the book some more). Wilkins: Did you miss it, when you were finally-when all was said and done? ZENI: No, not really. No. (??). Well, I got retired really here, and I started going to the Commissary out here, and Randolph and all that. I used to got to the one over there in Austin, Bergstrom. There I missed it, because I looked around and I saw service people, how different (bang on table) they were than the civilian MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni people. How nicer they were. The atmosphere was-I felt more at home there, than- (??). Wilkins: Um, when you did retire, what was your rank? You were a Chief Petty Officer? ZENI: Chief Petty Officer. They didn't have E-8, and E-9s then. I could have been a Warrant Officer, but I retired instead (interviewer's laughter). 'Cause my wife was on my back, so I figured I had enough of that . . . (Here, Mr. Zeni begins going through his personal military history book, pointing out pictures.) . . . Wilkins: So you mentioned you went to the school for the Aerial Gunnery. Did you ever actually use that? ZENI: Oh, yeah, but I mean. I was an Aerial Gunner, but I never used--oh that reminds me of another incident. What had happened was, Princeton-I think it was Princeton Carrier that blew up during the latter part of World War 11, you can tape this if you want. Are you taping yet? Willcins: Yes ZENI: Youare? Wilkins: Yes. ZEN: I didn't know it was taping. Wilkins: Oh, I'm sorry. ZENI: That's all right. When this carrier was being-it had to be towed back to the United States. It came through the Panama Canal, and I was flying near the MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni Yucatan Peninsula and the code came in to us. That's where Semaphore came in handy. And, oh, I gotta tell you another incident beside that. And the submarine was hauling it out to New York, the Princeton. It was a very damaged carrier. And this guy in the submarine come out with this blinking light, from the sub (laughter). I'll never forget that. And the S ema p h o r ~ ht,h ere was one day we went out. This was when we were at Neuvitas. That's the name of the base I was trying to think of: Neuvitas. And, we went out and we had to deliver messages that a submarine was in the area. So we took off. A couple guys dropped before me, and to no avail. This is dropped sandbags with messages inside from the airplanes (interviewer laughter, unintelligible few words). So I went, and we're flying, we went over the ship and I dropped it and it was out there, and they let it go over the side. I was mad. Then on the radio I heard the ship was calling Miami, described our airplane. We were harassing them (laughter). And, so the pilot got irritated, aggravated and he got on the mike and he says "we're not harassing you! We're telling you to turn because there's a sub in your area!" (laughter). And he broke radio-silence, it was bad. But he was p. o'd at the ship 'cause they were telling it like we were harassing them- Wilkins: Yeah, I can (laughter)- ZENI: And he was mad about that (laugher). That's a funny one for you. The more I go on, the more I can think of these things. (Begins flipping through book.) Wilkins: Um, I was gonna- ZENI: Go ahead, give your question. Wilkins: So, you used your education benefits that you got fiom the military? ZENI: No. MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni Wilkins: No? ZENI: No. Not a day. Because, I'll tell you the truth: I thought I was too stupid to go to college. Wilkins: Really? ZENI: Really. And I had a great job. Why did I need college? I was making good money in the space program. I (??). I did go one time. It was a rainy day. I went to a university on Long Island, and I leaned over to my wife and said, lets go home. That's the closest I came to it. But when I came down here, and I actually retired-my wife, like I told you, she came from Corpus. And her sister lives here in Sequin, right nearby. I worked for Butler. I helped start that plant, down here. Sometimes you go to Austin, you'll see it on the other side. Okay, so, they needed personnel to start this company. They came down from Kansas City, Butler Manufacturing. And, I was one of six guys that started there. But, I stayed on, I only worked there ten years. They had a larger refinery plant. I got 23,000$, in stocks. That's not too bad. But they offered to pay for the college. And that's why I went back, and I got my regular degree in Occupational Education, and a Master's in Personal Interdisciplinary Sciences, because they paid for them. The only thing it cost me was for the books. Wilkins: That's nice. ZENI: But, my GI plan had run out by that time. Wilkins: What are some of the- like, are there any differences that you notice in the military service when you first joined and military service now? ZENI: Yeah, lots. MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni Wilkins: What are some of the main ones that you notice? ZEN: When you went into World War 11, during the quad (??), you signed your life away. You were in the Rocks and Shoals Navy. Old timers will call it the Rocks and Shoals Navy. But you signed away your identity. You didn't know it, but you didn't write to a councilman. You didn't complain. You couldn't complain to nobody. And the Chief said, you couldn't do anything. You couldn't write your councilman or anything. They had your body locked in. They had no recall. And it was more disciplined. In World War 11, it was more disciplined than people in Vietnam and Korea. As far as Korea, Harry Truman changed all that when he pulled in the Code of Military Justice. He brought that in, he said "boys, you can write to your Congressman." But then, you belonged to the Navy. You had no identity. And it was a hard life, really, because Chief said jump, you jump. And there's nothing you could do about it. Wilkins: Wow. ZENI: And, a stupid kid, I was. When I got out of Raters school, I said "oh boy! No more guard duty." And the Chief laughed at me. He says, "you don't know what you're getting into." But generally the people were more hardened up. I found that when I was in the Reserve, that the people in the Rocks and Shoals Navy didn't like the people that were enlisted in the Reserves, because they didn't have to go through-you know, the Chief in the Rocks and Shoals was king. What he said went. But that didn't hold true for the Reserves. Whereas they could transfer or quit. And yo-yo things like-I'm gonna turn it off for a minute and talk to something else. (Tape stops and restarts) Wilkins: Um, okay, so, like, now do you belong to any of the Navy organizations or Veteran's organizations or anything like that? MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni ZENI: No. I never believed in the VFW or American Legion. I did join a few of them, but I was disenchanted. But, when I was a kid, I was growing up, the American Legion were a bunch of drunks throwing paper bags out the window on people and getting drunk (laughter). That's what I remember. No, I don't think they really-they probably do a good job. I didn't want any part of it. Wilkins: I think I've got most of my questions answered, either whether-most of them you answered. Just by talking you got most of my questions. ZENI: Well, good, I'm glad. Wilkins: Is there anything else that you wanted? ZENI: No, I wanted you to glance through these things. . . (Here, Mr. Zeni begins going through his personal military history book, pointing out pictures and pamphlets from his naval career.) . . . (looking at information from his Rating School) that reminds me, you had take care of, teach a class before you got out. Wilkins: Oh, that makes sense. ZENI: Yeah, so, I got a bunch of Marines. I also had Eddie Rickenbacker, Jr. in my class. Wilkins: Who? I'm sorry. ZENI: You don't know who Eddie Rickenbacker, Jr.-Do you no Eddie Rickenbacker? He was a World War I Army Air Corps Ace. Wilkins: Oh, okay, yes. I have, I remember reading about him now. MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni ZENI: Well, his son was in there. Now I lost my train--Oh I had the Marines. I says, "oh boy, I'm gonna have it easy. You boys were the sharp shooters. You're wearing all of those medals." And they were horrible (laughs). They couldn't hit the side of a barn. I was so disappointed. I said, "I thought you guys-whats all those sharp shooter medals you got?" I hated Marines, because when I was going to Radio School in Memphis, I was walking down the street in Memphis. Beetle Street, I think it was. I see this Marine breaking the antenna on this girl's car. I said, "why are you doing that for?' And she was ignoring him. I got in a fist fight over it. And the girl told the shore patrol about it. Shore patrol took the Marine with me then (laughter). Then, later on, there was another incident with the Marines. Oh, yeah, that's when I was at Squantom. You better put this down on there. When I was at Squantom, I used to be able to go to New York on my weekends, as long as I'd do shore patrol duty on Friday nights. Wilkins: Oh, okay. ZENI: So, I used to go do shore patrol, then I'd get off shift, go down to South Station, get on a train, and come to New York for the whole weekend. And what happened was, it was St. Patty's day. That's an Irish thing. Bostoners are all Irish. So, the Marines were up there and an English ship come in. so the Marines go-I won't go there, I'm jumping ahead. I'm walking-what I did, was that night I went to the movies, checked the movie out, walked around town. Then, I'm talking to a cop. Quincy Mass is the place. I'm talking to the cop and this woman says "There he is, when you want him run down there(??)" I said, "what's she talking about?" Are you taping this? Wilkins: Yes. ZENI: Oh, okay (laughter). So I says, "what's she taking about?" He says, "where were you about an hour ago? I says, "in the movie. Check it out." MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni "That's a good thing," he said. "They'd a killed you." He said, "the Marines and the English Navy went at it. And the Marines were swinging their belts in the air." (laughter). He says, "you were lucky" that I didn't go there. I don't know, the more I talk to you, the more I get thinking about all these experiences. Another funny experience I had was: you've ever heard of Ensign Gay? Last pilot to VT8, Torpedo Squadron Eight, they went off of Midway and the whole Squadron got wiped out, but he won the war and watched the carriers being sunk (??) Wilkins: Oh. ZENI: Ensign Gay is his name, he just died a little while ago. Boy, I was in Jacksonville, and Ensign Gay was gonna fly an airplane. And I got my (banging on table, word unintelligible) approved. I'm gonna fly with a hero. I got out-it was starting to rain, so Chief says "everybody man the planes." So I ran out and where do I grab the rain, and I pulled the ripcord (laughter). Oh, the parachute opened up, no flight. So the Chief says, "you're lucky. " He says, "if you were attached to this squadron," he'd a hurt me. Another time, was when I went out on patrol. What we had to do, we had old time radios, and we had to change the coils for different frequencies. And what happened was, you were supposed to pick the right coils out. So, I took off, and I didn't have the right coils. Boy, did I b. s. my way out of that one. I had to do a lot of work though. Instead of (tapping on table) keying Key West, I had to send all my messages through Mobile, Alabama (laughter). We were late back to Key West. That was the only way I could do it. I told them that we were in a dead zone, gave them some b. s. story like that, but I screwed up. That time it was at the Devil's Triangle. The Bahamas is what I was trying to think of earlier. So, that Bermuda Triangle, I had three incidents in there. That's one of them. And, to me, there is no such thing. You know how they make out of it? They're not in the Triangle, they're just screw-ups that people, like the torpedo bombers that took off and then found themselves-- and then they made a MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni big story about it. We're flying back fiom Bermuda. So, the guy says--I set all the frequencies up for Jacksonville, Florida, Norfolk and Carswell, or Kennedy- I think it was either one. So the pilot says to the other pilot, " I got vertigo," didn't know up or down. So, he goes, "let me take over," and their fighting. So, the pilot says to me, "get me Idlewild." So, I'm setting up the fieaking thing for him, and I unlocked the thing. So, he keyed it and the other guy grabbed it. And I don't know how he did it, and he erased all my frequencies. 'Cause I had them locked. So I had to reset them while they were arguing up there. I could hear it through the headphones. And finally we got it, and we landed. And he coulda gave up the plane, he just didn't want to give up control (??). Another thing that was great about being in the Reserves, I was a qualified Radioman. So anybody wanted to go on a liquor run, you know to duty free ports. I'd just call orders through the mike (laughter). And they were willing to buy me the same liquor (speaker fades away, unintelligible). That reminds me of another story. We landed in Bermuda one time, and we had came in from-what's the name of that place right of Rosy Roads? Where the ( ??) Wilkins: Oh, I don't know ZENI: I can't think of the name of it right now. Its one of the American owned islands. So, the Skipper was a hard nose. He says to-and low and behold(??) he went and took all the liquor out and lined it up on the apron, and he says-he came to one and he said "who owns this?'And the Chief didn't want to answer up. "Oh, it don't belong to nobody?" He called one of the guys on the line and says, "this don't to anybody, you guys can have it" (laughter). But he was very strict, he just, they reached a limit. But, I wasn't a drinker, so I said, I had got six bottles for somebody else. Course, I got caught with a lot of things. And it paid off a lot, you know. One day we took off for Bermuda and they were socked in, so we had to run up into El Paso . . . (Mr. Zeni has a question about the taping and if this will be MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni shown to the teacher) . . . .So we went to El Paso. So what happened was, we waited until the guards changed every eight hours, and we would get and extra quart. (Laughing) we were allowed six bottles, and we'd get six more. But, I didn't drink then, but the other guys did. Another time we went to Vegas, had a good time. That's what I'm telling you, the Reserves is a great experience. I worked hard. One guy told me, when I made Chief Petty Officer-I like working on airplanes. And, one day the skipper see me, he called me down. I was in my dungarees with my Chiefs hat on. He says, "what are you doin'?" I says, "I'm helping the guys out." He says, "there's a lot of guys that would like to be wearing your hat. Do you wanna give it to them?'Yeah, you wasn't supposed to do it, with being a Chief. But, it was a good thing. I had a good experience. That's one of the things that I remember on it. Another time I passed-another thing, I coulda killed the guy. I was going for Chief, way before I got it. I took the written test, and I passed everything. So I had a flight I wanted to make. So I told the instructor of the school-I knew him from way back-and I said, "you know I can take code, I ain't gonna take the code test." He flunked me. And they flew me, I threw it out because I wouldn't tell them about it. I ended up having to take the whole test again, because he didn't want me to be Chief. There was a lot of that, you know. People that you met that I didn't care for. But, not that they were good. The submarine people never liked us either. 'Cause we madeif you dropped, it wasn't a real depth charge, but if you dropped it from the plane, they'd think you had. It would send a shock through the hull. One time, there was a guy down there, and I'm sending a message. And I couldn't get the frequency in right. I would always get--oh, that's one of the reasons I didn't want to fly any more: 'cause my hearing started to go. And what I had to do, is I'd hear dit- dit- dit- dit- dit- dit and all the dits and dots, I had to detune it and It'd go boom- boom- boom- boom- boom, and I could make it out. I tried failing the swimming test (??). They wouldn't let me. I got turned in, MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni MS 315. Veterans History Project Zeni